stove pipe heat reclaimers

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stocker

Member
Oct 31, 2010
57
Northwest Indiana
Anyone here find these useful with the new stoves? It stayed on the whole time with my old stove and now it doesn't seem to do much at all with the new PE. Maybe because my flame isn't going up my stack now...lol. At least one thing I know the estimated temp of my pipe.
 

jotulguy

Feeling the Heat
Oct 9, 2010
383
central Pa
They had their place on old dirty burn stoves, but I would caution using them on an EPA stove. The EPA stoves are keeping the heat in the home (most 75% on low burn rate). So taking heat away from your pipe is taking the little bit of heat you have away from your chimney. It could cause draft or creosote issues over time.
 

certified106

Minister of Fire
Oct 22, 2010
1,472
Athens, Ohio
Not real sure what type of stove you are using, but I do know there is no way I would put one on my stove. It cools the flu way to much and can cause creosote problems. That's just my two cents worth. I had a friend who used to swear by his magic heat however he also had to clean his chimney every three weeks.
 

stocker

Member
Oct 31, 2010
57
Northwest Indiana
Great thanks for your reply...I will have hubby take out and switch back to our double wall pipe..hes not gonna be too happy but oh well, we'll be safer that way. Thats why this site is great.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
91,292
South Puget Sound, WA
These units are a bandaid and often cooled flue temps down to the point of increased creosote condensation. It doesn't belong on a modern stove.
 

glenng

New Member
Nov 9, 2006
121
Jotulguy said it perfect.
 

heating8

Member
Jun 12, 2009
49
south central PA
If you guys really want to reclaim more heat, just disconnect the smoke pipe from the chimney and vent it into the room. Then you'll be running real close to 100% efficiency.

Disclaimer : don't actually try this at all
 

vvvv

New Member
Feb 23, 2010
1,449
MAINE
stocker said:
Great thanks for your reply...I will have hubby take out and switch back to our double wall pipe..hes not gonna be too happy but oh well, we'll be safer that way. Thats why this site is great.
if it aint blowing, it aint extracting much heat. In the case of an overfiring stove it will control the fire so i wrote a blog which is in my signature. Most deal with overfiring with a fluepipe damper which isnt automatic as the MH is & controls the fire in my sawdust burner . if the old stove was inefficient, why would the MH create more creosote problems with the new stove?
 

Backwoods Savage

Minister of Fire
Feb 14, 2007
27,811
Michigan
Poor Pook (the vvv thing posted above). He is the only one who likes these things. Pay no attention...


Back in the 1970's I saw a lot of those things. People loved them when they first installed them.....but soon hated them and could not get rid of them fast enough. We called them creosote creaters. You can always sell them to a junk yard as junk is selling quite high now.
 

vvvv

New Member
Feb 23, 2010
1,449
MAINE
Backwoods Savage said:
Poor Pook (the vvv thing posted above). He is the only one who likes these things. Pay no attention...


Back in the 1970's I saw a lot of those things. People loved them when they first installed them.....but soon hated them and could not get rid of them fast enough. We called them creosote creaters. You can always sell them to a junk yard as junk is selling quite high now.
BS,u aint suposed to evaluate the messenger, suposed to evaluate the message,logically,scientifically, & statistically beyond BS
 

Backwoods Savage

Minister of Fire
Feb 14, 2007
27,811
Michigan
Normally I won't even read your posts but since I received a message that you posted to me, thank you. Now I promise to never attempt to evaluate you ever again; who could do that anyway??? More might read your messages if your messages made any sense. That is why so many on this forum just laugh at you or your posts. If you have the intelligence to make sense, then I and others will gladly read them and take them to heart but as it is, most of your posts are nonsense. Okay, rant done. Carry on.
 

branchburner

Minister of Fire
Sep 27, 2008
2,758
southern NH
Backwoods Savage said:
He is the only one who likes these things.

You mean the only one HERE. They are actually still quite popular.
http://reviews.northerntool.com/039...l-stove-6-in-model-mh-6-r-reviews/reviews.htm

But notice few if any reviews mention creosote or draft, so it is vital to have that knowledge. Once you have it, you can only know if the device is good or bad based on your own application. I do agree, in most stove setups it's likely to be bad. But if you have a setup that tends to see excessive flue temps or excessive draft, it would act much like a key damper (at 30x the price).

If you can manage to cool the flue just enough to extract a bit of heat and still have no creosote deposits, why not? The goal is to find the sweet spot and send out only the heat required to prevent condensation in the pipe. The biggest and most important step, of course, is to burn dry wood.
 

firefighterjake

Minister of Fire
Jul 22, 2008
19,505
Unity/Bangor, Maine
Backwoods Savage said:
Normally I won't even read your posts but since I received a message that you posted to me, thank you. Now I promise to never attempt to evaluate you ever again; who could do that anyway??? More might read your messages if your messages made any sense. That is why so many on this forum just laugh at you or your posts. If you have the intelligence to make sense, then I and others will gladly read them and take them to heart but as it is, most of your posts are nonsense. Okay, rant done. Carry on.

You know Dennis . . . I swear sometimes you are my father . . . I do the same thing . . . or rather don't do the same thing as you . . . after trying so hard to decipher Pook's cryptic language, bizarre thoughts on what is good and what is bad and strange ramblings I don't read the posts any more either . . . besides I figure about 9 in 10 are about Magic Heaters.

To this day I wonder if he is really a closet genius who for some reason has cultivated this Maine hick persona for whatever reason . . . or if he is serious in his ramblings and thinks the rest of the world is just off kilter . . . at least in the past some of his posts almost seemed to make sense . . . and then others were complete non-sense.

And the other thing I wonder . . . is if he actually heats with a woodstove or pellet stove . . . or if he is just relying on his past experiences in the 1970s or 1980s.

OK, rant over . . . back to the program.
 

firefighterjake

Minister of Fire
Jul 22, 2008
19,505
Unity/Bangor, Maine
To the original question and post . . . I think you'll find that most folks using a modern EPA stove do not use heat reclaimers and as Jotulguy mentioned find that they are actually not a good thing to use on a modern stove . . . and in fact you should get plenty of heat from your stove without having to resort to this old tech. In fact, I can only think of one or two members here who have used heat reclaimers and have kept them on their stove.
 

Backwoods Savage

Minister of Fire
Feb 14, 2007
27,811
Michigan
firefighterjake said:
Backwoods Savage said:
Normally I won't even read your posts but since I received a message that you posted to me, thank you. Now I promise to never attempt to evaluate you ever again; who could do that anyway??? More might read your messages if your messages made any sense. That is why so many on this forum just laugh at you or your posts. If you have the intelligence to make sense, then I and others will gladly read them and take them to heart but as it is, most of your posts are nonsense. Okay, rant done. Carry on.

You know Dennis . . . I swear sometimes you are my father
. . . I do the same thing . . . or rather don't do the same thing as you . . . after trying so hard to decipher Pook's cryptic language, bizarre thoughts on what is good and what is bad and strange ramblings I don't read the posts any more either . . . besides I figure about 9 in 10 are about Magic Heaters.

To this day I wonder if he is really a closet genius who for some reason has cultivated this Maine hick persona for whatever reason . . . or if he is serious in his ramblings and thinks the rest of the world is just off kilter . . . at least in the past some of his posts almost seemed to make sense . . . and then others were complete non-sense.

And the other thing I wonder . . . is if he actually heats with a woodstove or pellet stove . . . or if he is just relying on his past experiences in the 1970s or 1980s.

OK, rant over . . . back to the program.

No Jake, if I were your father or if your father were like me, you would have been taught the correct way to split wood.
 

ckarotka

Minister of Fire
Sep 21, 2009
641
Northwest PA on the lake
firefighterjake said:
Backwoods Savage said:
Normally I won't even read your posts but since I received a message that you posted to me, thank you. Now I promise to never attempt to evaluate you ever again; who could do that anyway??? More might read your messages if your messages made any sense. That is why so many on this forum just laugh at you or your posts. If you have the intelligence to make sense, then I and others will gladly read them and take them to heart but as it is, most of your posts are nonsense. Okay, rant done. Carry on.

You know Dennis . . . I swear sometimes you are my father . . . I do the same thing . . . or rather don't do the same thing as you . . . after trying so hard to decipher Pook's cryptic language, bizarre thoughts on what is good and what is bad and strange ramblings I don't read the posts any more either . . . besides I figure about 9 in 10 are about Magic Heaters.

To this day I wonder if he is really a closet genius who for some reason has cultivated this Maine hick persona for whatever reason . . . or if he is serious in his ramblings and thinks the rest of the world is just off kilter . . . at least in the past some of his posts almost seemed to make sense . . . and then others were complete non-sense.

And the other thing I wonder . . . is if he actually heats with a woodstove or pellet stove . . . or if he is just relying on his past experiences in the 1970s or 1980s.

OK, rant over . . . back to the program.

He sounds kinda like Ozzy, I don't think his t.v. show is still on so he would have some time to kill. Could it be him??
 

vvvv

New Member
Feb 23, 2010
1,449
MAINE
ckarotka said:
firefighterjake said:
Backwoods Savage said:
Normally I won't even read your posts but since I received a message that you posted to me, thank you. Now I promise to never attempt to evaluate you ever again; who could do that anyway??? More might read your messages if your messages made any sense. That is why so many on this forum just laugh at you or your posts. If you have the intelligence to make sense, then I and others will gladly read them and take them to heart but as it is, most of your posts are nonsense. Okay, rant done. Carry on.

You know Dennis . . . I swear sometimes you are my father . . . I do the same thing . . . or rather don't do the same thing as you . . . after trying so hard to decipher Pook's cryptic language, bizarre thoughts on what is good and what is bad and strange ramblings I don't read the posts any more either . . . besides I figure about 9 in 10 are about Magic Heaters.

To this day I wonder if he is really a closet genius who for some reason has cultivated this Maine hick persona for whatever reason . . . or if he is serious in his ramblings and thinks the rest of the world is just off kilter . . . at least in the past some of his posts almost seemed to make sense . . . and then others were complete non-sense.

And the other thing I wonder . . . is if he actually heats with a woodstove or pellet stove . . . or if he is just relying on his past experiences in the 1970s or 1980s.

OK, rant over . . . back to the program.

He sounds kinda like Ozzy, I don't think his t.v. show is still on so he would have some time to kill. Could it be him??
why y'all discuss me thru this post instead of email? = ure cluttering the post for the OP. If u evaluate my ideas objectively, i appreciate it & learn , especially when its in concise language couched in scientific logic= Pookese proper, not Pookinese
 

spirilis

Minister of Fire
Sep 8, 2009
940
Baltimore, MD
On my old smoke dragons, I've implemented the anti-heat reclaimer (the anti-pook?)--wrapping the single-wall stovepipe with aluminum foil to get the flue temps hotter so it drafts harder (and actually produces a moderately clean burn...). I find I can dial down my air lower while still maintaining beautiful (albeit less bright) flames in the firebox.

Unfortunately I'm dumping more heat out the chimney, but, it works for me ;)

FWIW, my Jotul will run hard with 750F temps around the areas of the stove where flames are most prominent when the air is dialled down using this setup. I'm starting to wonder if I'm actually getting more heat out of the stove this way!
 

Shari

Minister of Fire
Oct 31, 2008
2,332
Wisconsin
~*~vvv~*~ said:
Backwoods Savage said:
Poor Pook (the vvv thing posted above). He is the only one who likes these things. Pay no attention...

Back in the 1970's I saw a lot of those things. People loved them when they first installed them.....but soon hated them and could not get rid of them fast enough. We called them creosote creaters. You can always sell them to a junk yard as junk is selling quite high now.
BS,u aint suposed to evaluate the messenger, suposed to evaluate the message,logically,scientifically, & statistically beyond BS

Okay, Pook here's a logical, scientific and statistical response: As stated here numerous times the use of a MH has been 'engineered OUT' of the new EPA stoves. A MH reduces (reclaims) heat in the chimney. The new EPA stoves ALREADY have reduced chimney heat loss due to their higher efficiencies. Further lowering chimney heat is a recipe for creosote formation.

+1 to Backwoods Savage's comment - Pay no attention....

Shari
 

vvvv

New Member
Feb 23, 2010
1,449
MAINE
Shari said:
~*~vvv~*~ said:
Backwoods Savage said:
Poor Pook (the vvv thing posted above). He is the only one who likes these things. Pay no attention...

Back in the 1970's I saw a lot of those things. People loved them when they first installed them.....but soon hated them and could not get rid of them fast enough. We called them creosote creaters. You can always sell them to a junk yard as junk is selling quite high now.
BS,u aint suposed to evaluate the messenger, suposed to evaluate the message,logically,scientifically, & statistically beyond BS

Okay, Pook here's a logical, scientific and statistical response: As stated here numerous times the use of a MH has been 'engineered OUT' of the new EPA stoves. A MH reduces (reclaims) heat in the chimney. The new EPA stoves ALREADY have reduced chimney heat loss due to their higher efficiencies. Further lowering chimney heat is a recipe for creosote formation.

+1 to Backwoods Savage's comment - Pay no attention....

Shari
almost! what happens to the temp of the chimnigas when the stove overfires?
 

webbie

Seasoned Moderator
Nov 17, 2005
12,178
Western Mass.
It seems to me that there might be limited cases of new stoves when a heat reclaimer might be in order - specifically non-cats with excess chimney draft. I have seen very high stack temps in some non-cats, often in excess of 900-1000 °F . I'm not an engineer, but at the same time do not think that high of a stack temp makes for an efficient installation unless there is quite a bit of single wall stove pipe exposed.....in which case, the pipe does the same job as a heat exchanger would.

Many non-cat stoves on the market were designed a long time ago - and passing the pollution standards was the goal, MORE than the efficiency of the installation.

As far as "creosote factories", if we are talking about a hot burning non-cat with high stack temps, I assume most of those gases are being burned off inside the stove.

BG is probably correct that in a case of a perfectly modern stove, perfect installation (draft, etc.) and perfect wood and operator, these may rarely do any good, however looking over the posts here I constantly see people complaining about non-cat stoves running seemingly out of control - which may mean stack temps which are way too high.

Of course, we have the "ugly in the living room" part of the deal also. So let me say it this way. If you have a non-cat stove in the basement or man-room and it seems to burn too hot and have high stack temps, it might be that a heat exchanger would coax some extra heat from the installation AND slow down the draft a bit. But, then again, so would a properly set turn damper.......

Probably the worst place to use such a item is on one of the old stoves - because they DO NOT burn the tars and gases inside the stove, and they often run lower stack temps (unburned gases), therefore the creosote production can be heavy!

So, folks, am I wrong on this?
 

DAKSY

Full Time RVer
Staff member
Dec 2, 2008
9,189
Wherever we're parked
<>+1 to Backwoods Savage's comment - Pay no attention....<>

+2...& I'm waiting to see if he suggests using the MH on VF in the Gas Forum... :roll:
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
19,524
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
If you are worried about the thread.... the quickest way to ruin a thread is to have pook involved. Don't feed the troll.
 

vvvv

New Member
Feb 23, 2010
1,449
MAINE
DAKSY said:
<>+1 to Backwoods Savage's comment - Pay no attention....<>

+2...& I'm waiting to see if he suggests using the MH on VF in the Gas Forum... :roll:
duh, whats a condensing furnace?
 

spirilis

Minister of Fire
Sep 8, 2009
940
Baltimore, MD
~*~vvv~*~ said:
DAKSY said:
<>+1 to Backwoods Savage's comment - Pay no attention....<>

+2...& I'm waiting to see if he suggests using the MH on VF in the Gas Forum... :roll:
duh, whats a condensing furnace?
One that uses the exhaust heat to preheat the combustion intake air (not the whole friggin' room), aye?
edit: nevermind, that's direct vent I'm thinking of, not sure if the condensing types vent the extra heat into the intake air or into the regular duct plenums.
 
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