Stove pipe routing? With Picture.

[n6crv]

Hello, Well got the new stove and chimney all in and even tried it out. I was having trouble getting the flue temp up. Stove top 600deg pipe 300deg. Now my question. When I did the first install 20 yrs ago we wanted the stove centered on one wall in the den. The wall cover is 89"high by 63" wide, it is made for wood stoves and the last layer that shows looks like black louvers. I have 4 large concrete slabs on the floor for the stove to set on. Well when we had the stove centered I went to cut the hole for the chimney support box and as luck would have it I was right under a beam. Now I'm not talking about a little beam this thing is about a 10x10 oak beam. So I had to move the support box over some. Well I ended up having to use 2 adjustable Ell's to get the pipe to match up to the stove and the chimney. I can't tell you what deg the ell's are at but less then 45deg. The new stove has 6" flue and I would like to get the flue pipe to the chimney the best way I can. I did some measuring and from the center of the chimney to the center of the stove it is off 6 1/2" I have one 2' piece of stove pipe coming off the stove then a adj ell then 16" pipe and another adj ell to the chimney. The 16" piece is on a slight angle to the next ell. Would I be better to have the two ells together or like I have them? I tried taking a picture but all I get is the black wall. I really don't want to move the stove over as it would look really bad and my floor cover would not be over enough. Thanks for all your thoughts.
Don

 

[jtp10181]

Do you have double wall pipe or single wall? Double wall, you wont get a good pipe temp reading unless you drill a hole and insert a probe.

The less horizontal pipe you have the better it will work. A set of 15* elbows give you more vertical and less horizontal but don't offset as much obviously. Depends on how much height you have to work with. Also it would probably be best to have the elbows at the top instead of near the stove, it sounds like you have this setup already.

 

[n6crv]

Hello Jtp, it is single wall pipe. I moved the pipe around yesterday and was able to get the offset a little less. I fired up the stove as it was still cool outside and we could leave the windows open some. Well the stove top was running at 700deg but the pipe was still only getting to 325deg. There was flames at the top of the fire box, but still getting a fair amount of smoke from the chimney. This is my first time using a EPA stove. The stove heats up real fast just not sure why I'm getting low flue temps. I did swap the thermometers and got the same readings. I hope when it gets colder out the higher draft will help get the pipes hotter. I only burnt it for a couple of hours but I can see were the smoke has already discolored the top of the stainless chimney. Also I was burning some Maple and Oak that was a couple years old. I would of thought the fire brick would have more of a light color instead of the black that they turned. Thanks for the help.
Don

 

[begreen]

N6CRV, what stove did you get? Can you post some pictures of the stove and stove pipe installation?

One thing to check is the door and ashpan (if there is one) gasket sealing. Do the dollar bill test all the way around the door gasket(s).

 

[n6crv]

Hello BeGreen, Here is a picture of my setup. The cardboard box does not stay behind the stove. It is an Englander 13NCP. The new chimney is 9' of 103ht stainless. The single wall pipe is 5' from the top of the stove. If you notice the inside of the stove seems darker then I would think for just having a hot fire burnt. Thanks for the help!
Don

 

[Corie]

It would seem that you don't have enough height in the chimney to provide sufficient draft with the outside temperatures still relatively high. As far as the pipe goes, I'm heading home so I'll crunch some numbers with the different offsets available and see if there isn't a combination that works. All you really need to do is jog the pipe over 6.5 inches, correct?

 

[n6crv]

Hello Corie, yes that is all that I have to move the pipe over 6.5". I kind of wondered if it was not the warm Wx that was affecting the flue temp. It was warm for running the stove but not so warm we needed the air conditioner. Thanks for the Help. So far from what I have seen going to like the stove and Mike has been a real help.
Don

 

[jtp10181]

Check all the joints on the single wall, if there is a lot of air getting in that could cause problems.
All the black inside the stove could be a sign of low energy wood (wet or punky).
Check the gaskets also, as BeGreen suggested.

 

[n6crv]

All the joints on the pipe are sealed with Furance Cement except for the very top Ell. That way I can remove the pipe to clean it. The wood was some that was a good 2 years old and dry. I took some inside before we started getting all this rain. I did use pieces of pine lumber to get it started. The seal around the door is nice and tight. Hope that part of it was it is really not very cold out yet.

 

[jtp10181]

A close up shot of the stove might be interesting also.

One other thing to check, if this unit is like the other non-Cat I have seen. Check the baffle board and insulation above the air tubes. The board should be pushed all the way and laying flat on top of the tubes. The insulation should come just to the front edge of the board and overlap the sides and back creating somewhat of a seal. The insulation should be laying flat and smooth, and not bunched up anywhere.

Other than that, I am out of ideas.

 

[n6crv]

Hello Jtp10181, this is the inside of the stove after the burn that I got the 700 deg stove top temp. The board is setting on top of the tubes like it should all the way to the back. It almost looks like there is some creosote on the back of the firebox were the air goes thru. That might be from the end of the burn but the air damper was not closed shut. I would think the firebox should be clean with as hot of a fire as was burning.
Thanks!

 

[BrotherBart]

A close up shot of the stove might be interesting also.

One other thing to check, if this unit is like the other non-Cat I have seen. Check the baffle board and insulation above the air tubes. The board should be pushed all the way and laying flat on top of the tubes. The insulation should come just to the front edge of the board and overlap the sides and back creating somewhat of a seal. The insulation should be laying flat and smooth, and not bunched up anywhere.

Other than that, I am out of ideas.

Quads have a blanket on top of the ceramic fiber boards. The Englander's don't.

 

[Hogwildz]

Is that the thermometer way up on the pipe?
I would suggest moving it down to about 18" from the stove top. Could be why your getting cooler readings from the pipe.
Not sure how much difference it will read, but should read hotter somewhat.
Is that 6" pipe? Maybe just me, but looks larger.

 

[fbelec]

Is that the thermometer way up on the pipe?
I would suggest moving it down to about 18" from the stove top. Could be why your getting cooler readings from the pipe.
Not sure how much difference it will read, but should read hotter somewhat.
Is that 6" pipe? Maybe just me, but looks larger.

check the thermometer my thermometer says about a foot above the stove.
either way if that stove top says 700 degrees that inside should be a little cleaner than it is.

 

[n6crv]

Yep that is a thermometer on the pipe. The picture makes it look higher then it is, I have tried it at 18" and in the picture it is 20" up. I agree the inside should be cleaner with a 700deg stove top. I did swap the thermometers and they read the same. I'm not sure what the max temp of the stove top should be but 700 seems like it would be near it.
Don

 

[Corie]

I'm going to get those that developed that stove to look at the pictures and give some advice as to why it is running that way.


As far as lining up the pipe goes, you can either use two 15 degree elbows and about 22 inches of pipe in between, two 30 degrees and about 12 inches of pipe in between or two 45 degrees with about 9 inches of pipe between. Don't take my measurements for the in between pipe as exact, but put the two angled pieces on and then measure for yourself.

I know that 15 and 30 degree elbows aren't available in MSG stove pipe, as far as I know, but you can get stainless steel 15 and 30 degrees which should work. They make a black paint specifically for use on stainless steel pipe.

Hope that helps.

 

[n6crv]

Thanks Corie, it would be a great help to know what might be going on. I can tell you when the temp was at 700 it was making some crackling sounds inside. not sure what was making the noise. Not sure if the board on top of the air tubes is suppose to be solid on the ends but it kind of looks like it is separating. Thanks for all your help.
Don

 

[Corie]

Don,

I'll try calling later on tonight when I get home, but right now is it possible for you to snap some photos of the pipe from outside and also if you can, of the de-laminating fiberboard. We're trying to track down the exact culprit of your problem but we need some more details. Just want to make sure that you've adhered to the 10-3-2 rule with the outside chimney and also that you don't have some part of your house higher than the stack which is causing decreased draft. Once we get the photos of the outside stack and the fiberboard (if possible) we'll go from there.


You can email them to me here at work if possible: coriep @ englanderstoves . com

 

[Larry H]

Now that's customer service. Great to have guys like Corie and Mike on this board. I've been a bit out of touch with h.com this summer - Dad's starting to have a few health problems and hasn't retired yet, so my brother and I have been running it for him in addition to regular work since last March. Looking forward to the cool days of fall to start burning again. Did manage to get enough wood layed up in time tho'.

Larry