Stove verses Insert

[lhr]

This is lhr's wife Rose with a question. My husband and I differ regarding what to purchase, a insert or wood stove. Currently we have an insert, which I like because its unassuming, works well with the space and decor, and is more clean and elegant in appearance. He prefers a wood stove that would heat better and that we can cook on, but because it sits out in the open with an open fireplace box I think it looks rather rough unsightly. The balance we are trying to reach is that we'd like something that would heat well if the electricity is out and gives us the capability to cook on it. I recognize that air doesn't circulate around an insert and that's why there is a blower (which requires the electricity to work) where as a wood stove doesn't need a blower. Is there an insert that would come close to our goals or will I have to get used to the idea of an out in open plan. Thanks

 

[richmhv]

Most inserts are blower-dependent and will put out a lot less heat in a power outage. It looks like you are in Alabama so this won't be as severe a problem as your winter temperatures are fairly mild. If you lived in a more northern climate, I would say get the freestanding stove. Most are fairly attractive. The only thing that is a bit ugly is the T connector behind the stove. (Common if you install a rear vented stove in front of a fireplace.) I suppose you could have a metal plate covering the fireplace opening with a hole for the lateral stove pipe.

 

[firefighterjake]

HehHeh . . . sounds a bit like me and my wife. She didn't want to give up a lot of space to the woodstove so we ended up moving a wall back a foot or foot and a half . . . doesn't sound like much, but it made a difference. She is not all about the "look", but the look of the stove in the living room and the spacing needs did play a part in what we ended up with . . .

I've read here that some inserts can work without the blowers, but I cannot remember which.
Cooking on an insert could be tough . . . some jut out a bit, but you're not talking about much.

What stove brands are you looking at . . . some stoves have significantly less clearance distances which take up less space . . . some stoves also can look pretty elegant vs. some which are pretty much just a steel box.

 

[kennyp2339]

Do you have a block off plate installed above the insert? If you don't you may want to have one installed, you maybe able to get more heat out of the existing insert. Just something to think about.

 

[branchburner]

The problem of course is that you need something that extends out of the hearth to cook on, while at the same time you want the appearance of nothing extending out of the hearth! So from the point of view of cooking, a free-standing stove allows for a huge number of stove options to be considered, while an insert is going to limit your choices to the very few that offer any cooking surface.

As for appearance, with a free-standing stove you have two things to consider: the stove itself, and the condition of the hearth/fireplace behind it. As long as the fireplace can be cleaned up to be at least unassuming, if not attractive, the stove itself will be the focal point. If you find a stove whose look you love, the background behind it will fade in importance. This is especially true once you have a toasty fire in it on a bitter cold day!

My wife was originally opposed to putting a stove in her lovely brick fireplace, but now she wouldn't have it any other way. She still has the brick, since we didn't get an insert, and the free-standing stove is more functional than an insert in terms of cooking and heating in times without power (or with it!).

If your hearth behind your existing insert is unnatractive, part of your challenge is to fix it up, but if it is not going to be a functional fireplace again then that shouldn't be too expensive or difficult. If cooking and heating without a blower are priorities for you, I think a free-standing stove is the way to go. For us, it was not hard to recess the stove part way into the fireplace, so it really isn't sticking out that far.

 

[lhr]

Jake,
We're looking at the Ideal Steel Hybrid because of the great reputations of the company and stove and because of its different colors and designs.

HehHeh . . . sounds a bit like me and my wife. She didn't want to give up a lot of space to the woodstove so we ended up moving a wall back a foot or foot and a half . . . doesn't sound like much, but it made a difference. She is not all about the "look", but the look of the stove in the living room and the spacing needs did play a part in what we ended up with . . .

I've read here that some inserts can work without the blowers, but I cannot remember which.
Cooking on an insert could be tough . . . some jut out a bit, but you're not talking about much.

What stove brands are you looking at . . . some stoves have significantly less clearance distances which take up less space . . . some stoves also can look pretty elegant vs. some which are pretty much just a steel box.

 

[lhr]

Kenny,
We've had someone out to look at our chimney, and they said that they'd install something like that when they put it a new insert or stove. I think he said it would be a thick layer of some kind of poured insulation.

Do you have a block off plate installed above the insert? If you don't you may want to have one installed, you maybe able to get more heat out of the existing insert. Just something to think about.

 

[lhr]

Sounds exactly like our situation. Have you posted any photos of your stove? Thanks.

The problem of course is that you need something that extends out of the hearth to cook on, while at the same time you want the appearance of nothing extending out of the hearth! So from the point of view of cooking, a free-standing stove allows for a huge number of stove options to be considered, while an insert is going to limit your choices to the very few that offer any cooking surface.

As for appearance, with a free-standing stove you have two things to consider: the stove itself, and the condition of the hearth/fireplace behind it. As long as the fireplace can be cleaned up to be at least unassuming, if not attractive, the stove itself will be the focal point. If you find a stove whose look you love, the background behind it will fade in importance. This is especially true once you have a toasty fire in it on a bitter cold day!

My wife was originally opposed to putting a stove in her lovely brick fireplace, but now she wouldn't have it any other way. She still has the brick, since we didn't get an insert, and the free-standing stove is more functional than an insert in terms of cooking and heating in times without power (or with it!).

If your hearth behind your existing insert is unnatractive, part of your challenge is to fix it up, but if it is not going to be a functional fireplace again then that shouldn't be too expensive or difficult. If cooking and heating without a blower are priorities for you, I think a free-standing stove is the way to go. For us, it was not hard to recess the stove part way into the fireplace, so it really isn't sticking out that far.

 

[branchburner]

Have you posted any photos of your stove?

Not that show it's positioning very well. It's a mess there now, so rather than try to do it justice check out this phot:
http://www.fireplaceeditions.com/images/firelightclosedsm.jpg

Mine is similar but hearth flush with the floor, without all the extra brick extending out into the room.

 

[lhr]

branchburner,
That's beautiful! I'd better know show that to Rose, or we'll be trying to afford hearth modifications.

 

[timfromohio]

We ran a PE insert for a decade 24/7 in the winter up in NEOhio. It was a great insert but next to useless without the blower. Personally, I got sick of the blower noise. So, my vote is for free standing stove. That said, if you're worried about powering the blower with the grid down, a golf cart battery and small inverter will keep you in business for days. Also, keep in mind that are a few stoves out there with short leg kits to make them appear a bit smaller in a fireplace installation. Further, Hearthstone makes a nice "hearth mount" stove, though I forget which model (Heritage maybe?)

 

[timfromohio]

PS - you can simmer on the insert top of many of the inserts out there and "cook" if you want to on a stove top (we also had a Napolean 1150P - cooktop with 2 burners), but it's easier to fire up a propane camp stove for cooking.

 

[begreen]

Rose, it would help to know more about the area that the current insert is heating. The IS may be a bit too much for Alabama.

How large is the house? Is the floorplan open or rooms closed off from each other? How large is the stove room? What is the current model insert? How often does the power go off and for how long.

 

[branchburner]

it's easier to fire up a propane camp stove for cooking.

Easy, but I don't know about easiER. With a free-stander, the "firing up" is the status quo, sort of a permanent standby in cold weather. Nothing could be easier for making coffee or tea (or pasta or whatever), for example, than having a kettle on the stove that's at a rolling boil for hours on end.

Helps a little with the humidity, too.

 

[timfromohio]

Easy, but I don't know about easiER. With a free-stander, the "firing up" is the status quo, sort of a permanent standby in cold weather. Nothing could be easier for making coffee or tea (or pasta or whatever), for example, than having a kettle on the stove that's at a rolling boil for hours on end.

Helps a little with the humidity, too.

Good points. I guess when I think cooking I was thinking of stuff that might be more messy, or splatter, etc. We used the burners on the 1150P for boiling water, but if the power was out and I wanted to make pasta and sausage, it was camp stove city!

 

[BrotherBart]

Years ago we used to cook on the stove in outages. After a stew boiled over and we couldn't shut the stove down because of the cold and smelled burned stew for a week that was the end of that. A double hot plate and the generator rule now. With a camp stove and propane cylinders standing by in the basement.

 

[mass_burner]

OP, there are inserts out there is that feature convection properties in addition to radiant heat. Morso is one manufacturer. Mine has a fan, but I never use it, don't need it. The large glass radiates heat and the ribbed upward sloped cast iron back moves heat through the top vent. Its also flush mount, complety flat against the chimney.

 

[Grisu]

After a stew boiled over and we couldn't shut the stove down because of the cold and smelled burned stew for a week that was the end of that.

That's why I cook IN the stove: The hood is already built in. Not sure what the neighbors are thinking when they smell a barbecue in the middle of a blizzard, though.

 

[BrotherBart]

One of the best convection inserts with the blowers off is the Pacific Energy Summit. The design promotes convection. I worried for years about how our old pre-EPA insert would do without power, mostly damage to the fan motors and nylon blades, if run without them running. Lost power for two weeks and the house stayed warm and the fans survived unscathed.

Heat wants to get out there where there isn't any. One of them physics things.

 

[lhr]

mass_burner,
Thanks for that info. The convective design sounds great, but the flush mount would preclude cooking on it. :-|

OP, there are inserts out there is that feature convection properties in addition to radiant heat. Morso is one manufacturer. Mine has a fan, but I never use it, don't need it. The large glass radiates heat and the ribbed upward sloped cast iron back moves heat through the top vent. Its also flush mount, complety flat against the chimney.

 

[lhr]

Bart,

Thanks for your reply.

I looked on Pacific Energy's website and couldn't find any info on convective heating.
But, it probably doesn't matter. I think that we've decided to go with the Ideal Steel Hybrid.

Thanks to everyone for all the help! You've been great.

One of the best convection inserts with the blowers off is the Pacific Energy Summit. The design promotes convection. I worried for years about how our old pre-EPA insert would do without power, mostly damage to the fan motors and nylon blades, if run without them running. Lost power for two weeks and the house stayed warm and the fans survived unscathed.

Heat wants to get out there where there isn't any. One of them physics things.

 

[begreen]

This site shows how a Lopi stove convects. Same principle for other convective stoves.
(broken link removed to http://www.thefire-place.com/fireplaces-stoves-inserts-and-gas-logs/lopi-products/how-lopi-wood-stove-works/)

 

[mass_burner]

This site shows how a Lopi stove convects. Same principle for other convective stoves.
(broken link removed to http://www.thefire-place.com/fireplaces-stoves-inserts-and-gas-logs/lopi-products/how-lopi-wood-stove-works/)

Convection is convection, but the image is of a standalone stove. Does lopi have an insert significantly relying on convection?

 

[begreen]

Yes, all of their inserts rely on convection. Most of their non-flush units (there are many) will convect reasonably well during a power outage, but not as well as with the blower on.

 

[Andy S.]

This is lhr's wife Rose with a question.

Everything after that is just filler material, Rose. You and everybody else on this forum know that that you are going to get exactly what you want.

The balance we are trying to reach

That is a REALLY nice touch, though. If I didn't know better I'd think you were my own wife. Balance... that's rich.

All kidding aside, the advice you get from these guys will be perfect. Good luck with your new insert!