When the power goes out and the blower fans are useless.Which stove would you want that could heat that 1500-2000sq ft. of living space ?My vote would be the Woodstock fireview or Classic, a large Heartstone would also work for me.I spoke to a Woodstock Rep. who said they build their stoves so they are not dependant on a fan to heat a home.I say amen to that.
Stoves and their Blowers.
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If it is not an insert get a eco fan or a heat wave, they sit on top of the stove and run without electricity and they should work on most stoves to circulate the heat. I use one on the top of my TL-300 and it works great, better then the blower since it does not cool the combustion chamber.
That being said, soapstone does retain its heat for longer periods of time compared to the non-soapstone stoves.
That being said, soapstone does retain its heat for longer periods of time compared to the non-soapstone stoves.
Any free-standing stove will transfer it's heat to the space in two ways: radiation in all directions, and convection pretty much straight up. The blower kits accelerate and redirect the convection to a more horizontal flow of warm air, promoting additional mixing/circulation in the room at about stove level, before it begins it's inevitable migration to the highest reaches of the space. A free-standing stove will warm the room with or without the blower operating, it just may take longer for the room at sitting/standing height to become comfortable starting from cold. Our Lopi in the house has a blower, and we like it. My little CFM in the workshop has no blower, but it'll heat that space just fine, I just have to be a little more patient, as the 10' ceiling height will capture a lot of heat up high. I've never tried one of the Sterling engine Eco-Fans, but the idea's intriguing to me (I'm a Mechanical Engineer) and I might get one for the workshop. Soapstone absorbs a lot of heat and keeps radiating it long after the fire's died down, but then you still have to put that heat into the stone, so it'll be slower to begin radiating/convecting on startup. Rick
yes I agree. I would say that soapstone, then cast tehn steel would be my ranking for your question though. Having said that, I wouldnt be without the blower on my Olympic, night and day difference in heating my house. if the power goes out, on comes my generator 
Adirondackwoodburner said:yes I agree. I would say that soapstone, then cast tehn steel would be my ranking for your question though. Having said that, I wouldnt be without the blower on my Olympic, night and day difference in heating my house. if the power goes out, on comes my generator
Adirondackwoodburner your statement if your power goes out on comes the generator shows the uselessness of many of these new stoves without a blower fan.That's not how it should be.A stove should be able to get the job done having no fan.Give me that part of the old fashion stoves that heated the space when the lights went out.My Pacific Energy Summit is useless without the fan and with the fan it's useless below 25 degrees.I hear a lot of hype about these stoves but don't experience the build up so it's gone and in with the stove that heats very well without a fan The Woodstock Classic.I have two eco fans they are more like a toy not a tool.They move no heat but spin very fast.You put your hand right in front of them and you can feel no breeze at all.Woodstock did say that a good way to move the heat around if you must is a doorway fan or ceiling fan.Save your money on the eco-fan.My grandchildren like to look at it and that's as good as it gets.I mean how many other companies sell their stove and say a blower is not needed for good heat circulation.I can think of only one,Woodstock.
Boy oh boy, it's pretty rare to hear that a PE Summit is useless. From what I've heard they kick a$$. They are more of a convection heater so I guess a blower would help them push out more heat. How many square feet are you trying to heat? Let us know how the Classic works out for ya. It will be interesting to see if it makes a difference.
Why don't you ever hear about battery backups for woodstove blowers like you hear about pellet stoves?Seems like a good option to me.
Why don't you ever hear about battery backups for woodstove blowers like you hear about pellet stoves?Seems like a good option to me.
Rich, I hate to break it to you, but there is no substantive difference in the construction of today's woodstoves that makes them less heat transfer efficient when the power is out than the models of the past.
Again, not to rock your boat, but your Summit puts exactly the same amount of heat into the room whether the blower is running or not. Anything that causes accelerated air movement can certainly help destratify the heated air and move it around the house more efficiently, but that air movement needn't be generated by the stove's blower.
The blades on Ecofans are specifically designed to create WIDE air dispersal patterns. The 8" circle of moving air created by the whirling blades becomes a 6 FOOT circle of moving air by the time it has traveled two feet into the room. In laboratory testing, the smaller (2-blade) Ecofan tested at 100 cfm air movement, and the larger (3-blade) model tested at 150 cfm. By comparison, the plug-in AC blower for your Summit was tested at 160 cfm.
I would put soapstone about last along with cast as they are pretty much radiant heaters.
A jacketed stove like the classic line of PE's and the new Alderlea line are an example of a "convection" type stove. They are designed to move air, that's why the top of the stove has louvers, and the clearances are tight.
Rich L, don't mistake the lack of searing radiant waves from a PE as not being able to heat. I heat 1800sqft in Ontario and can turn this place into a greenhouse in Feb if I want to. Perhaps given the location (converted porch if memory serves) a radiant stove may be better. They switched to radiant heaters in the truck bays at my work...leaky garage doors that get opened alot the radiant makes you feel warm even when the air temp is cool.
Good luck.
A jacketed stove like the classic line of PE's and the new Alderlea line are an example of a "convection" type stove. They are designed to move air, that's why the top of the stove has louvers, and the clearances are tight.
Rich L, don't mistake the lack of searing radiant waves from a PE as not being able to heat. I heat 1800sqft in Ontario and can turn this place into a greenhouse in Feb if I want to. Perhaps given the location (converted porch if memory serves) a radiant stove may be better. They switched to radiant heaters in the truck bays at my work...leaky garage doors that get opened alot the radiant makes you feel warm even when the air temp is cool.
Good luck.
What I meant was basically this. My Olympic will heat my area just fine without the blower, but, #1. It will take longer for the house to come up to temperature. taking longer requires more overall wood consumption as well. Would I purchase a stove without a blower, no. Can I run my Olympic without it and be comfortable, yes.
Rich L said:Adirondackwoodburner said:yes I agree. I would say that soapstone, then cast tehn steel would be my ranking for your question though. Having said that, I wouldnt be without the blower on my Olympic, night and day difference in heating my house. if the power goes out, on comes my generator
Adirondackwoodburner your statement if your power goes out on comes the generator shows the uselessness of many of these new stoves without a blower fan.That's not how it should be.A stove should be able to get the job done having no fan.Give me that part of the old fashion stoves that heated the space when the lights went out.My Pacific Energy Summit is useless without the fan and with the fan it's useless below 25 degrees.I hear a lot of hype about these stoves but don't experience the build up so it's gone and in with the stove that heats very well without a fan The Woodstock Classic.I have two eco fans they are more like a toy not a tool.They move no heat but spin very fast.You put your hand right in front of them and you can feel no breeze at all.Woodstock did say that a good way to move the heat around if you must is a doorway fan or ceiling fan.Save your money on the eco-fan.My grandchildren like to look at it and that's as good as it gets.I mean how many other companies sell their stove and say a blower is not needed for good heat circulation.I can think of only one,Woodstock.
If you can't heat 1500-2000 sq ft with the Summit, you have other problems besides the type of stove. How's your insulation and windows?
Thanks for the responses which are all very interesting.I was very excited about buying the SUMMIT after reading all the rave reviews about it.It was a great letdown when it didn't perform as reviewed.Todd you may be right my problem may not be the stove but still it is a mystery.The Summit replaced an old Hearthstone II which did a great job heating my second floor and attic.For some reason the Summit isn't throwing off the heat no way near as much as the old burner.My second floor and attic are so chilly that I had to close off the attic and my second floor is still not comfortably warm.I even took off the two side shields on the summit which allowed more heat but not enough to get the job done.However when I open the Summit up to refuel the firebox is blast furnace hot.Now how do I get more of that heat out into house.Without the blower on the house is very chilly and the eco-fans do nothing towards moving the warmth as far as I can feel.I have the three blade gizmos.If my power went out We'd be wearing heavy clothing in the house.So for the sake of living in warmth the classic is going in.
yes, I see what you are saying. My olympic heats basically from the front. I can basically touch the back and sides of the stove without removing my hand. This maybe what You are referring to. My parents have an older VC Vigiliant cast stove. You can really feel the radiant heat coming off of it and at times I compare it to my stove. Totally different house and therefore it is hard to compare the two. I do know one thing, I dont burn nearly the amount of wood they do with that older stove
Rich, any change in the wood being burnt since the days of the Hearthstone II? Any changes in the house structure since then?
You know I think Gunner's work experience with radiant heaters may be a clue to partly resolving my issue with the Summit.Since my best heater was the Hearthstone II a radiant heater and Gunner's account how radiant heaters warm up drafty truck bays at his job it's reasonable to say that for my situation a radiant heater is the answer.My house has had new windows installed and some walls insulated since the days of the Hearthstone II my wood now as was then is good seasoned hardwood.When The Hearthstone was in good working order I would get overnight burns with the wood.We were always toasty.I could also burn coal which gave a very long burn.The coal really burned the stove out after years of burning to the point it had to be removed.Now for a worthy replacement
Adirondackwoodburner said:
Well,I already have the Woodstock Classic which I had in my cellar.I replaced it with The Hearthstone Mansfield.I'll move it after my last seasonal burn with the Summit.I'm still burning at night.I hate to put the oil burner on.I'll sell the Summit $1000.00 or best offer.
Strange, from what I've heard, you would think that Summit would blast you out. What kind of stove top temps were you burning with the Summit?
I hope the Classic works out for you. May I ask why the Classic and not the Fireview? They are pretty much the same except the Fireview has glass. I'd be lost if I couldn't see the fire.
I hope the Classic works out for you. May I ask why the Classic and not the Fireview? They are pretty much the same except the Fireview has glass. I'd be lost if I couldn't see the fire.
Todd said:
I did have a temp guage on the Summit at one time to determine a good time to damper down to see if I got more heat out of the stove.It hit 575 then I dampered down.I had the pipe damper and the stoves damper engaged.That's the only time I noticed the stove top temps.The results were the same unimpressive heat amounts.
I choose the Classic because of the additional soapstone thinking more soapstone meant longer radiant times.I like to look at the fire also however I like longer heat times better.
This doesn't add up. BTUs are BTUs. The Summit, run right, should put out a lot more BTUs than the Classic. The Summit run hot will put out almost twice the heat. Without seeing the setup it's hard to say what's up. but one would think that either the heat passage to upstairs is being blocked, return air is somehow blocked, or the Summit is not being run at temp. Or someone left a window open
FWIW, if you decide to sell the Summit, I'd wait at least until early fall when the demand will be high.
FWIW, if you decide to sell the Summit, I'd wait at least until early fall when the demand will be high.
BeGreen said:This doesn't add up. BTUs are BTUs. The Summit, run right, should put out a lot more BTUs than the Classic. The Summit run hot will put out almost twice the heat. Without seeing the setup it's hard to say what's up. but one would think that either the heat passage to upstairs is being blocked, return air is somehow blocked, or the Summit is not being run at temp. Or someone left a window open
FWIW, if you decide to sell the Summit, I'd wait at least until early fall when the demand will be high.
I don`t get it either? Something is not right here or I have missed something. Man as I type this my beast which is about 20% smaller than the summit is cooking us out of our recroom. And I am talking insert here, not even a stove which is far more effiecient. Hope this guy is not going to just throw away money for no reason?
Hey, there you go BG, not pushing my little beast, actually stating that the mighty steel beast`s (pe`s stuff) should cook you right out of your living space. Even my old one did that, just not happy with the burn time. I guess quality and performance is in the eye and the hands of the beholder and the operator? in that order :-S
Rich L, refresh our memory with a full description of your setup please. I think I remember you saying the summit is in an enclosed porch. ie) tons of glass and little insulation. A picture would be best.
The problem is almost certainly with any one or combination of; draft, location, lack of insulation, tons of glass, not running it hot enough, improper use of pipe damper, wood, operator error....etc....no offense.
Switching to a smaller stove is going to give you LESS btu's no 2 ways about it.
A summit does a great job of heating AIR, and you will not feel that intense radiant heat like an old school stove. If that heated air is easily leaking outside, it ain't the stoves fault.
575 stovetop for a summit is barely idling....
Why are you using a pipe damper? If you are experiencing low heat output, this will only make it worse.
The problem is almost certainly with any one or combination of; draft, location, lack of insulation, tons of glass, not running it hot enough, improper use of pipe damper, wood, operator error....etc....no offense.
Switching to a smaller stove is going to give you LESS btu's no 2 ways about it.
A summit does a great job of heating AIR, and you will not feel that intense radiant heat like an old school stove. If that heated air is easily leaking outside, it ain't the stoves fault.
575 stovetop for a summit is barely idling....
Why are you using a pipe damper? If you are experiencing low heat output, this will only make it worse.
Battery back-up works for me, not that I've ever used it, can't remember an electric power outage during cold weather in the past 30 years.
Anyway, I have two deep-cycle 12v batteries I use for electric motor trolling in my small fishing boat, so I have the battery power to run a small fan for many hours/days. I also have a 500 watt dc/ac converter that will allow me to power the fan. That said, I have had an insert which requires a fan to get the heat out...thinking about installing (correctly this time) a new Quadrafire 3100-I insert.
Anyway, I have two deep-cycle 12v batteries I use for electric motor trolling in my small fishing boat, so I have the battery power to run a small fan for many hours/days. I also have a 500 watt dc/ac converter that will allow me to power the fan. That said, I have had an insert which requires a fan to get the heat out...thinking about installing (correctly this time) a new Quadrafire 3100-I insert.
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