Installed one a couple of weeks ago and as some others have reported it made a small difference but not a huge one, I think the stove is a little hotter but it still likes to settle about 600 max, if I use smaller pieces of maple, elm, green ash and just let it go it will get a little above 600 but sluggish at best, at this point in time I dont know what the hell to do. BG I have no good way of adding a couple of feet to the chimney so have not tried that. The stove works great other than this one thing, no top end.
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A flue damper seems like the opposite of what you need. It's getting late in the season for experiments. What's the problem with sticking a temporary piece of pipe up there? If it is a healthy respect for heights and age, I can dig that, but all I can tell you this stove should be reading a good 100F hotter with a nice load of wood. That's a lot of btus.
Not sure I can attach it enough to trust it, I have read many thoughts on the issue and I have enough draft but I think it may be a velocity problem. The damper did help just a little.
It's just for a test, cram a 3ft. piece of 6", cheap galvanized vent pipe in there crimp down. If it blows down, no big deal. The flue won't be any shorter than it was before. Just be careful, we don't want you slipping and sliding up there.
Can you post a shot of the current flue top? What type pipe does it terminate with?
Can you post a shot of the current flue top? What type pipe does it terminate with?
Clay liner sticking out of the block a couple of inches, will look at it this afternoon, its 7 1/4 in round liner so will have to go on the out side with a 8 inch piece of stove pipe and am not sure I can get it to stay there for the test.
Yes, I am not sure if the 8 inch stove pipe will be tight on the liner or not. Plenty warm today so can check it out this after noon.BeGreen said:
If you can get a 3-6' length of 8", lightweight vent pipe. Take some tin snips and make a 12"-18" slit on the side opposite the seam. I think that may allow it to fold over enough to insert in the 7" pipe.
I am no expert however as an engineer I would put my money on it being a velocity problem with a 71/4" pipe the flue gasses are going to slow down and create less draft. It also seems that a masonry chimney will lend itself to a cooler flu with more sluggish draft. Have you considered putting a 6" liner down the chimney as that seems like it would most likely put your problems to rest.
The chimney is inside except for the top six feet and it was insulated when new but do not think its there any more, the stove works great with quick starts and no smoke back into the romm its just the temps are low on the top end, the chimney needs some work so am trying to decide how I want to fix it. If I put a liner in it I will still have the 2-90's in it but not sure I want to tear out the masonary block but I might then I will have about 18 ft of 6 inch straight up pipe.certified106 said:
Good idea, all I have is some good 8 inch pipe I do not want to cut up so will have to take a road trip.BeGreen said:
Minimum chimney height is 15' so you are barely over the minimum height then you couple that with it being oversized and 2 90's and you are setting yourself up for less than adequate draft conditions.
Yes, but like I said it works well with good secondaries and quick heat up time and long burns and no black glass so hoping that is the problem, most people with poor draft issues report a whole other rash of problems. I am guessing at this point, the good thing is the chimney needs some work any way. Forgot I can also turn the air all the way down and have a good fire so it has taken me a while to come to this conclusion. Plus I have high flue temps so all this has added to my questioning the chimney draft being low.certified106 said:
You must not have read I have no top end, the stove sort of dies out about 600 or so. I heated the house like this last winter but it will be a lot better if I can get the stove up to 700 or so.dbailp said:
dbailp said:
Now you are starting to understand my confusion with this whole problem, seems like it will burn the wood faster and I would have even higher flue temps but on paper it looks like I need more draft to get the stove hotter.
If you want more heat you're going to burn more wood. That just goes with the territory of pushing a stove full tilt. We don't bring our stove much over 500-600 in this weather. It's only when it's very cold that we welcome the reserves and let her rip. This is regulated by the amount of wood we feed the stove. Right now we are loading 3-4 splits max.
I'm guessing that your problem is weak secondary combustion. With improved draft, you should get better and more complete secondary burn. FWIW, we had a mid-sized Napoleon owner here a while back that had the same problem and at first did everything but increase the pipe length, including modifying the stove. Nothing worked until a few feet were added to the flue. Then bingo, heat.
I'm guessing that your problem is weak secondary combustion. With improved draft, you should get better and more complete secondary burn. FWIW, we had a mid-sized Napoleon owner here a while back that had the same problem and at first did everything but increase the pipe length, including modifying the stove. Nothing worked until a few feet were added to the flue. Then bingo, heat.
BeGreen said:
+1. I get a little smoke back, some lazyness this time of year because of the stupid weather patterns we get. Just gotta let her rip on a good initial charge, reload after 3-4hrs and then shut her down. You need a hot firebox to achieve it in the "warmish" stuff we all got goin on now. Often, it gets a little too warm, and you are tempted to shut her down too quick, only to be bummed when it dies down too fast 'cause u did... then you try to open it up and end up repeating the process a 1/2 hr later. Less wood, but brisker fires. I'd probably extend the chimney if needed.
To this day though I can't figure out why this stove won't go past 600 on a full load. I realize my 30 is no summit, but I can get up to 700 on 4 splits when I could stuff 6 or more in there. Are all summit owners out there finding the same thing?
I've never run the summit, but I am simply dumbfounded by the temps spark is seeing here. If I load my stove up to the gills I can get her up to 900+ if I want (don't ask). I just can't figure why this summit stove won't do that unless this block chimney isn't drawing hard enough to make the secondaries work properly? I don't know other than if my 30 only got up to 600 I'd be one cold and miserable person.
pen
I've never run the summit, but I am simply dumbfounded by the temps spark is seeing here. If I load my stove up to the gills I can get her up to 900+ if I want (don't ask). I just can't figure why this summit stove won't do that unless this block chimney isn't drawing hard enough to make the secondaries work properly? I don't know other than if my 30 only got up to 600 I'd be one cold and miserable person.
pen
Old Spark, I thought you had come to the decision to install a 6" liner after reading your posts at https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/72593/. Seems maybe you've changed your mind, and I would respectfully suggest that you consider changing it back.
There are ideal wood stove venting systems. For example, PE dialed your firebox in to work best with a 6" round, insulated chimney running straight up (no elbows) at least 15 feet.
There are totally unsatisfactory wood stove venting systems. These will cause problems like hard-to-start fires, smoke back-puffing into the room, no secondary burn, too-hot or too-cold stove temps, fires that go out, fires that burn up too quickly, etc. etc. etc.
Then there are marginal venting systems. These function adequately, but not at the level needed for optimum performance. Your system, for example, is not optimum for your stove: it is oversize, barely tall enough, totally uninsulated for the top 6 feet, only marginally insulated below, and it incorporates two 90's. It should be no surprise that your stove functions, but not at optimum performance.
Installation of an insulated 6" round stainless liner (and elimination of the 90's if possible) would transform your venting system into a much closer approximation of the system your stove was designed for, and couldn't help but improve its performance.
There are ideal wood stove venting systems. For example, PE dialed your firebox in to work best with a 6" round, insulated chimney running straight up (no elbows) at least 15 feet.
There are totally unsatisfactory wood stove venting systems. These will cause problems like hard-to-start fires, smoke back-puffing into the room, no secondary burn, too-hot or too-cold stove temps, fires that go out, fires that burn up too quickly, etc. etc. etc.
Then there are marginal venting systems. These function adequately, but not at the level needed for optimum performance. Your system, for example, is not optimum for your stove: it is oversize, barely tall enough, totally uninsulated for the top 6 feet, only marginally insulated below, and it incorporates two 90's. It should be no surprise that your stove functions, but not at optimum performance.
Installation of an insulated 6" round stainless liner (and elimination of the 90's if possible) would transform your venting system into a much closer approximation of the system your stove was designed for, and couldn't help but improve its performance.
If 3 feet or so of pipe makes it work better I could save some money so well worth a try, some times I wish I would have just left well enough alone.
I purchased 20 feet of liner w/ cap and attachment components for 400 bux to my door. I paid another 15 dollars for a 3 or 4 cu foot bag of vermiculite to insulate it.
Now that I have burned the same stove on the old 7 1/4 x 7 1/4 masonry chimney versus the new one, there is no comparison. Not only is the draft better, but I actually get LONGER burns because I can close the stove down further w/out it turning to a smokey mess and it holds the coals longer. Last winter, I had to reload every 10-12 hours. Now I can go up to 14 and easily get a fire to take off on full sized logs.
I used to clean that old chimney monthly and remove a few cups of creosote. I burn well seasoned wood and I consistently burn HOT. However, that chimney was always cold. This winter, I cleaned the chimney 2x and there was no black creosote to be seen, just some white / gray soot.
To me, the 415 dollars was a damn good investment as it increased the performance of my stove and also the safety.
pen
Now that I have burned the same stove on the old 7 1/4 x 7 1/4 masonry chimney versus the new one, there is no comparison. Not only is the draft better, but I actually get LONGER burns because I can close the stove down further w/out it turning to a smokey mess and it holds the coals longer. Last winter, I had to reload every 10-12 hours. Now I can go up to 14 and easily get a fire to take off on full sized logs.
I used to clean that old chimney monthly and remove a few cups of creosote. I burn well seasoned wood and I consistently burn HOT. However, that chimney was always cold. This winter, I cleaned the chimney 2x and there was no black creosote to be seen, just some white / gray soot.
To me, the 415 dollars was a damn good investment as it increased the performance of my stove and also the safety.
pen
Thanks for the offer, not sure what I could be doing wrong, I may take you up on that but the wood burning is comeing to an end, only haveing fires now in the morning.summit said:
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