Summit flame shield purpose?

69911e Posted By 69911e, Feb 4, 2013 at 5:50 PM

  1. 69911e

    69911e
    Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Oct 29, 2010
    73
    11
    Loc:
    CT
    Does anyone know the purpose of the Flame Shield on the PE Summit insert? Some older literature form PE calls this the insulating flame shield.
    This is a sheet of steel above the combustion chamber, above the baffle, and sits 0.1-0.2" below the thick plate top of the stove. This has the effect of lowering the temp of the stove top due to being an additional layer and it also accumulates ash further insulating the top.

    Why insulate the largest emitting surface of the stove and lower it's thermal efficiency?
    Seems to be counter productive to the main purpose of the stove.

    The plate top is > 0.250" thick. Don't think this needs protecting.

    To get the stove up to temp faster to pass emissions?
    Protect from over fire?
    Decrease the clearance to combustibles above like a mantel?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  2. madison

    madison
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Sep 12, 2008
    1,566
    126
    Loc:
    41.33°N 74.18°W and 44.67°N 111.0°W
    Good question, my bet is to limit (divert) flames from the chimney.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. Todd 2

    Todd 2
    Feeling the Heat 2.
    NULL
    

    Sep 17, 2012
    418
    157
    Loc:
    NE Ohio
    My Summit free stander had the same plate, I'm pretty sure the dealer told me it was a flame/heat deflector to keep from warping or turning the top red when fired hard, sorta deflects the direct flames/heat outward under the top.

    Todd2
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    77,537
    12,696
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    I had guessed it was to stop a hot spot forming in the center of the stove top. There tends to be more secondary air in the center due to the secondary air hole pattern. But this is a question best asked of PE or perhaps Mr. Oyen.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  5. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 3, 2006
    8,980
    2,217
    Loc:
    Next to nuke plant Berwick, PA.
    There is a flame shield mounted on the underside of the insert top plate( rests in the air wash in front & has one bolt holding it up in place at the rear flue outlet. There is also a shield over the insulation on top of the baffle. A LOT of heat is up there with the baffle in place. So my guess would be to protect the top sheet of steel from turning cherry red, and the other to protect the baffle top insulation. You will still get plenty of heat off the top of the stove.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. skinanbones

    skinanbones
    Feeling the Heat 2.
    NULL
    

    Feb 10, 2011
    299
    28
    Loc:
    Ontario
    The flame sheild is there to stop the steel top from being eatten away. Without it your can burn through the top of the stove in as little as 2 years, as one of our customers exprienced.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  7. tim1

    tim1
    Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 8, 2011
    135
    34
    Loc:
    columbia river gorge,portland or
    My older summit did not have the shield, so by the advice here, I added one, but no evidence of anything on top plate from previous overfires. Tim
     

    Attached Files:

    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 3, 2006
    8,980
    2,217
    Loc:
    Next to nuke plant Berwick, PA.
    PE BAFFLE WITH TOP BAFFLE FLAME SHIELD REMOVED.JPG PE BAFFLE REAR WITH FLAME SHIELD OFF.JPG PE BAFFLE FRONT & TOP.JPG PE STOVE TOP INNER FLAME SHIELD.JPG
    Tim,
    The insulation should reach all the way back to the back of the baffle, and slightly more so it compresses against the back wall of the stove. The heat shield runs almost back to the back edge of the baffle, maybe an inch or so short. Not sure what you have the nut & bolt for? And your photos shows the heat shield on top of the baffle. There is another one that mounts to the inside of the top of the stove. There is a bolt hole off of the flue outlet and the front edge sets just inside the air wash channel in the front.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. 69911e

    69911e
    Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Oct 29, 2010
    73
    11
    Loc:
    CT
    Thanks for the informative replies. I have asked PE but received no response.
    As the older ones didn't have the shield, but the top can be burned through in a very short time (2 years), perhaps this shield comes into play only when over fired and actually oxidizes the top due to the oxygen rich environment of the secondary air injected by the front edge of the baffle?

    Tim: Did you notice a decrease in top temp when the shield was installed?
    Skinanbones: Do you recall if the top eaten away across just the front area or the entire surface of the top(front to back)?

    I ran a test and the heat output was significantly better without the shield, but mine is an insert and relies more on this surface then a stove. This test also included reconfiguration of the blower airflow pattern on the top surface as the original design has zero airflow over the entire front 6" (it's covered by an aesthetic plate) and uneven airflow on other areas.

    If the only reason for the shield is oxidation of the top, maybe a conductive bond/paste can be added between the top and shield. This is quite difficult to do post manufacturing; I will ask a metallurgist for any reasonable options.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. thechimneysweep

    thechimneysweep
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 19, 2005
    847
    81
    Loc:
    Bellingham, WA
    Two different parts are being discussed here, the flame shield and the insulation shield. The original PE design incorporated a ceramic wool blanket which sat on top of the baffle to ensure secondary lightoff temperatures below. The blanket material is somewhat fragile, subject to tearing or getting sucked up by the shop vac at cleaning time, so newer models feature a thin-gage plate that attaches to the baffle and protects the blanket, as shown in Hog's first three photos. Tim's photo shows a homemade version.

    The flame shield, shown in Hog's bottom photo, is made of much thicker stainless, and is bolted to the underside of the top plate to protect the 1200 deg. paint on the cooking surface from the 1100+ deg. secondary flames below. I've never had a customer operate their stove without the shield in place, so I can't speak to skinandbones' customer's experience with a top plate burnout. In fact, I've never seen a top plate burnout on any wood stove ever. I can't help but think that salt or some other corrosive might have been part of that picture.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. 69911e

    69911e
    Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Oct 29, 2010
    73
    11
    Loc:
    CT
    Tom: I was hoping you would share you knowledge and experience on this.
    Thanks
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. tim1

    tim1
    Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 8, 2011
    135
    34
    Loc:
    columbia river gorge,portland or
    Oh, I thought the purpose of the insulation was to better the secondary burn, I did not know it was to go all the way to the back. Next time it is out, I will fix that. Since I never used this stove without this, I do not know how hot the top was. It is plenty hot now!!! Thanks for the input. Tim
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 3, 2006
    8,980
    2,217
    Loc:
    Next to nuke plant Berwick, PA.
    The insulation is to help keep the baffle hot, but as long as they leave it from factory, It also seals the back of the baffle to the back wall of the insert. This also keeps crud from falling down around the back channel, and falling down into the vertical secondary air supply channel. With it long, most of the crap falls into the stove when you pull the baffle forward and tilt to remove. Or all over your arms too ;-)
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. 10-cc

    10-cc
    Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 28, 2008
    122
    15
    Loc:
    St-Bruno, Quebec, Canada
    I had an ongoing issue with my 1998 Pacific Energy Summit PEDESTAL
    ; poor draft and undry wood symptoms like unburned wood at the rear end of the stove. Today I decided to analys the stove parts. First I had a hard time removing the baffle as the flame shield was so wrapped interfering with the baffle removal. After using some force I managed to remove the baffle and the flame shield.
    Can somone know the real dimentions of that flame shield? I know it is 3/16" thick and 16" long as that side did nor wrapped (the front part where it sits on the airwash chanel) but I cannt figure the short size as it was so badly wrapped. I need to reproduce the plate myself. The PE part number is: SUMM.31155.

    Thank for any insights.

    Henri
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    77,537
    12,696
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Maybe pull the baffle on the Alderlea and measure that one?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  16. 10-cc

    10-cc
    Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 28, 2008
    122
    15
    Loc:
    St-Bruno, Quebec, Canada
    Yes good id, is there a indifference between the size of them? The T6 is a newer model, 2010 I think.
    BTW, I am testing the Summit right now without the sheild at low heat, definitely better draft and higher top temps then with the shield on.
    Thanks bgreen, always there with excelent posts.
    Henri
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  17. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    77,537
    12,696
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    It's not surprising that there is a big improvement considering how warped the old shield was. The higher top temps make sense. The flame shield is to protect the top from overheating. The 2010 T6 is still an 'A' model. There's a good chance that the shield size is the same as your Summit's.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...

Share This Page