Summit Insert - Glorified Fireplace and Nothing More - Faulty Install?

[JoeysDad]

Hi all,

I just had the Summit insert installed yesterday and am having a horrible time with it. It looks great, but so far only operates as a fireplace. I can get the fire ripping and roaring pretty well with little smoke in the house, but only with the door open. As soon as close the door, the fire goes down to embers within a minute or two, killing the fire I had going at a strong rate. The air control is set to START, and I have a few windows open to ensure proper draft. No matter what combination of wood, kindling, and paper I have tried, closing the door has 100% always resulted in the destruction of the fire. After 5 hours of this I'm beyond frustrated.

BTW, I paid top dollar to have this professionally installed, so install error SHOULD be out of the question. What the heck could I possibly be missing here?

 

[BrotherBart]

Start here.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...lem-stoves-air-is-restricted-faq-about.59225/

Happens to a few people every year. It will be OK.

 

[weatherguy]

The stoves most likely fine and it's one hell of a heater, needs good fuel.

 

[Grisu]

How dry is the wood?

Professional install means at least 15' of 6" liner?

 

[JoeysDad]

Start here.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...lem-stoves-air-is-restricted-faq-about.59225/

Happens to a few people every year. It will be OK.

I started reading... I'll keep going.

 

[webby3650]

How dry is the wood?

Professional install means at least 15' of 6" liner?

Unless they have a 12' tall chimney on the fireplace. Then that doesn't leave many options for the professional other than warning them of potential draft issues.
The wood is under seasoned. I'd put money on it.

 

[JoeysDad]

The stoves most likely fine and it's one hell of a heater, needs good fuel.

Have good quality Oak and Duraflame Fatwood kindling. Newspapers knotted. Top down fire. Kindling on the bottom. I've tried it all.

 

[JoeysDad]

How dry is the wood?

Professional install means at least 15' of 6" liner?

I think about 19 feet is the official height.

 

[webby3650]

Have good quality Oak and Duraflame Fatwood kindling. Newspapers knotted. Top down fire. Kindling on the bottom. I've tried it all.

How long has the Oak been cut split and stacked?

 

[BrotherBart]

Essentially the stoves require a good hot chimney flue to create sufficient draft to pull the combustion air through the stove. But 99.6245 percent of the time the wood isn't dry enough.

 

[JoeysDad]

How long has the Oak been cut split and stacked?

I will buy a moisture reader, but this stuff should be decent. I just bought it though with assurance it's been seasoned > 1 year from a reputable supplier.

 

[webby3650]

I will buy a moisture reader, but this stuff should be decent. I just bought it though with assurance it's been seasoned > 1 year from a reputable supplier.

I can almost promise you that it's the wood. Go buy some bundle wood from the grocery store, give that a try. Oak is the hardest wood to season, it takes 2 years to dry below 20%!

 

[Grisu]

Unless they have a 12' tall chimney on the fireplace. Then that doesn't leave many options for the professional other than warning them of potential draft issues.

The first stove shop I went wanted to sell me a quick-connect first before I said I wanted a full liner.

The wood is under seasoned. I'd put money on it.

That is also my guess.

Have good quality Oak

Good quality oak means it has been either split and stacked by you personally at least 2 years ago or tested with a moisture meter on a fresh split when purchased and showed a reading of 20% or less.

 

[BrotherBart]

I will buy a moisture reader, but this stuff should be decent. I just bought it though with assurance it's been seasoned > 1 year from a reputable supplier.

Just listen to the fire with the door open. If you hear hissing, it ain't dry wood.

 

[JoeysDad]

Essentially the stoves require a good hot chimney flue to create sufficient draft to pull the combustion air through the stove. But 99.6245 percent of the time the wood isn't dry enough.

I'm able to get the wood practically burnt down to coals with the door open (effectively eliminating all H2O), and it still dies very quickly when I close the door. As much as I'd love to believe my wood sucks, which would still suck, I'm having a hard time believing that's the issue at hand.

 

[JoeysDad]

Just listen to the fire with the door open. If you hear hissing, it ain't dry wood.

0 hissing. Some cracking. Wood lights right up with the door open and a few blows with the bellows. I'm not new to starting fires, I'm just new to the concept of doing it in a stove. I'm especially new to failing to start a fire. This sucks.

 

[Grisu]

Wet wood makes still a lot of coals. The water that is bound within the tree cells does not easily burn off. Get some kiln-dried wood or those compressed logs (Envi-blocks, Bio-Bricks etc.).

I'm having a hard time believing that's the issue at hand.

As dozens of members here burn successfully in a Summit with dry wood I can assure you it is unlikely to be the stove.

 

[JoeysDad]

The first stove shop I went wanted to sell me a quick-connect first before I said I wanted a full liner.


That is also my guess.


Good quality oak means it has been either split and stacked by you personally at least 2 years ago or tested with a moisture meter on a fresh split when purchased and showed a reading of 20% or less.

I'll have to get a moisture meter tomorrow and report back.

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

You just had it installed yesterday, I say relax a bit, keep trying, you will get there, is your flue completely closed?...

 

[BrotherBart]

Yeah, that thing is a heating beast. So we will get you there from here. Before long you will be worrying more about over-firing it.

 

[BrotherBart]

is your flue completely closed?

Huh?

 

[JoeysDad]

Wet wood makes still a lot of coals. The water that is bound within the tree cells does not easily burn off. Get some kiln-dried wood or those compressed logs (Envi-blocks, Bio-Bricks etc.).


As dozens of members here burn successfully in a Summit with dry wood I can assure you it is unlikely to be the stove.

The stove itself is one of the best. It's why I put out the money. But the wood is also among the best, and it burns darn good by any standard with the door open. Would wood that burns excellent with plenty of air just suddenly not burn with the stove door closed because of a moisture issue? What's a good way to test my wood before getting a moisture meter?

 

[JoeysDad]

Yeah, that thing is a heating beast. So we will get you there from here. Before long you will be worrying more about over-firing it.

I hope you're right. I don't want a 450+ lb paper weight and 2 cords of oak wood to go to waste on a fire pit in the yard. It really seems like the fire just doesn't get enough air with the door closed.

 

[Grisu]

Split it and hold the fresh surface against your cheek. If it feels cool/damp it is still wet.

 

[BrotherBart]

Would wood that burns excellent with plenty of air just suddenly not burn with the stove door closed because of a moisture issue?

Yep. Had it happen many a time. In fact when I have the 3.0 cf firebox in the 30-NC stuffed I can tell when there is one wet big split in that mess somewhere and have to stay up waiting until the moisture cooks out of it because I know when it does all hell is gonna break loose.