Switching to Dextron in my splitter???

[FuzzyOne]

I think I'm going to switch to ATF fluid in my splitter. I was splitting yesterday and the temps were in the 20's. It seems whenever I have time to split.....it's cold out. I've read a few threads where ATF is recommended in cold temps. My MTD (about 10 years old, 25 ton, 6hp B/S) doesn't get a lot of use...at least not compared to most of you.

If I switch, can whatever hydraulic fluid that is left in the cyclinder and hoses mix ok with the Dextron, or do I need to do flush it out in some way? I haven't found too much info. after searching here and the guy at the NAPA store weren't sure.

Second, if I decide to leave the hydro fluid in, can I damage anything, such as the pump or cyclinder seals, if I use it in such low temps? Yesterday, I hooked up a magnetic heater to the tank.

Thanks for the help....

 

[Nic36]

Wouldn't it be easier to somehow come up with a way to warm your hydraulic fluid prior to running the splitter? Once you have it running, the fluid should stay quite warm.

Maybe have some sort of (safe) heat source on the reservoir tank that would keep it warm before you take it out to use.

Just a thought.


Duh, never mind. I just read the sentence about your heater after I posted.

 

[kevin j]

The residual AW oil will mix with ATF just fine.
You could also change to lighter AW hydr oil. I use ISO 46 mostly, (Minnesota) but you could go lighter to ISO 32. I would not go as far as ISO 22 though.
Or you can mix the viscosities, preferably from the same supplier name.
ATF is ok, good fluid for high operating temperatures especially, but I'd stay with AW hydraulic oil personally.

I'd use the magnetic heater for cold start, then you know the system has enough viscosity when it is hot. (although most logsplitters never get above about 120 F. 'Hot' is 150-160 or up)

The main cold start damage issue is pump suction cavitation if the fluid is too thick. Start and idle it until the fluid warms up (to fluid temperature 40-50 degrees maybe). Flow in the suction line is the lowest at idle. Also, thick fluid will cause high return filter pressures. There should be a bypass in the filter head, but again simple startup and warmup should solve it all.

 

[FuzzyOne]

The main cold start damage issue is pump suction cavitation if the fluid is too thick. Start and idle it until the fluid warms up (to fluid temperature 40-50 degrees maybe). Flow in the suction line is the lowest at idle. Also, thick fluid will cause high return filter pressures. There should be a bypass in the filter head, but again simple startup and warmup should solve it all.

I'm not sure how other splitters are, but my engine runs full bore. There is no "idle". I'm guessing....based on the comments...that ATF isn't good to use in warm weather? And what id "AD hydro oil"?

Thanks again for the help...

 

[bsa0021]

I just had this discussion with a truck equipment company on what hydraulic fluid should be used in wrecker hydraulics. They stated that AW32 hydraulic fluid is used most of the time but if the equipment does not operate properly in cold weather, switch to dexron but you must absolutely remove the old fluid (do not mix the two fluid types).
I don't know why the hydraulics would be any different on a splitter.

 

[JustWood]

Dilectric hydro oil.

 

[bsa0021]

Dilectric hydro oil.

Isn't that for situations where the equipment could come in contact with electrical lines as in bucket trucks??

 

[kevin j]

AD oil is what results from fat fingers typing too fast. s/b AW for antiwear, just the term for normal hydraulic oils. I fixed it above.
Does your engine not have an idle position for starting? You can modify the governor by adding a wire or spring to hold it in idle on starting. Going immediately to high idle after starting is tough on engines cold without lubrication.

Wrecker service would be similar in the gear pump and simple manual valves, but they probably start up cold and run very imtermittently. Are the tanks under the hood and warm up, or would they always be cold?

I designed some equipment for arctic conditions where ATF was too thick and we ended up using a synthetic fluid lower than ISO 22. Maybe similar to the blue fluid the snowplow electric power units use.

ATF is a little more aggessive on some additives, has a much better viscosity index, but is really intended for running hot in torque convertors etc. Holds its lubrication well at thin viscosities and high temps. Good for low temps also, Sundstrand, now Sauer, approves it for use in their hydrostatic transmissions but not the first choice if an approriate AW hydr fluid is available. If you change I would pump the cylinder in and out but not be worried about flushing or cleaning. It will mix just fine.

 

[FuzzyOne]

Thank you all for the comments. Now I'm thinking of just leaving it in stay with the magnetic heater. I'll also look into making the engine idle. After 10 years with this B&S 6hp IC engine, I had to do my first repair. Damn mouse ate through the wire on the coil.

 

[wellbuilt home]

My MTD splitter said use dextro 2 trans fluid only .
I don't know if it really matters one way or the other ? I use the ISO VG 46 in most of the hydraulic equipment .
I use amsoil synthetic trans fluid in my trucks so i use the same fluid in the splitters The stuff is a direct replacement for the dexron AFT .
The amsoil is good in cold weather .Its pricey but you don't need to change it as much .
I drain the cylinders and pump when i change over. but the oil will mix fine . John

 

[JustWood]

Dilectric hydro oil.

Isn't that for situations where the equipment could come in contact with electrical lines as in bucket trucks??

For use in hydro equipment that runs in very cold temps. Like snow groomers. I use it in one of my dump trucks in the winter. Pump and valves complain and give me fits if I don't.

It will mix with regular oil so a few quarts or gallon may be enough in a small system.

 

[JustWood]

Thank you all for the comments. Now I'm thinking of just leaving it in stay with the magnetic heater. I'll also look into making the engine idle. After 10 years with this B&S 6hp IC engine, I had to do my first repair. Damn mouse ate through the wire on the coil.

Torpedo heater aimed at the tank .
Heat lamp.

Worst case scenario.... pee on tank. :gulp:

 

[Tony H]

I am running ATF in my 30 year old splitter with no problems and FWIW most if not all of the new splitters sold use ATF. I talked to a buddy that's a heavy equipment mechanic and he said you can drain and refill with ATF the small amount will mix in fine, he also said the splitter does not have the constant load you would have in say an end loader and there is really no advantage to using regular hydro fluid. My next door neighbor has reg fluid in his and has to sit it in the heated garage for a day or two before using it in the winter so I gave him an old magnetic oil pan heater I used to use on an old truck and now he can plug that in for a day or two and get the fluid warmed up and that works fine for him. Either way just get the fluid warm so you don't starve the pump and damage it.

 

[John_M]

For What It Is Worth, the instructions with my Iron and Oak splitter approve the use of hydraulic fluid OR ATF but not mixed.

John_M

 

[BrotherBart]

The splitter I have been using year round since 1988 has always been filled with universal ATF. In fact it is the same tank of fluid I put in it in 1988. Plus a little additional to top it off every couple of years because if it isn't sitting level a little overflows on the return stroke.

 

[highmark800]

I put ATF in my splitter to start with just because here in the middle of summer it is only on the 70 f range. Vail ski resort runs atf for hydraulic oil in the snow cats.

 

[FuzzyOne]

I switched to Dexron III fluid today. I think I was running 20W hydro fluid in there based on what the label had said. I drained all the hoses and the tank as best I could. I had no idea how to purge the cyclinder. I couldn't remember how long ago I changed the hydro fluid which is what sparked me to change. All set now, new coil, filter, engine oil and ATF fluid. I'll give it a shot tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for your help and expertise.

 

[logjammed]

28 gpm pump i got through northern hyd. required atf for warranty. original splitter had a blue hyd. fluid and now piston leaks.