tankless water heater
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I installed and used it almost 10 yrs ago. It was a NG bosch. The benifits were : it took up very little floor space (it hung on the wall), it didn't use fuel when I wasn't using hot water, and I didn't have to worry about a tank leaking, when away on vacation. It also never ran out of hot water as long as you didn't exceed the gpm flow rate, which I never did.
The downsides were: I had to repipe my gas and vent lines, and it was more expensive than a tank.
In the right application I would definetly do it again.
The downsides were: I had to repipe my gas and vent lines, and it was more expensive than a tank.
In the right application I would definetly do it again.
Additional negative possibility, depending on your level of dissolved minerals in your water, can lead to relatively quick build up of mineral deposits leading to reduced or blocked flow of hot water. Had one for a bit but do to a very high lime content it would plug up every six months, a water softener system might have reduced that some. Figuring in the plumbers bills the cost to operate exceeded conventional tank type.
thanks for the replies...i heard you have to flush it out every year..i don't have a problem with that...as long as it saves gas,i can deal with it..thanks again.
Because of the "endless" supply of hot water, some people end up using more hot water than before, which may be counter-productive of the other possible economies. Regardless, insulate well all hot water lines - it does make a big difference.
I have had a Paloma tankless for almost 5 years now, it works great and hasn't had any maintenance since putting it in (Paloma is Rheem, they came into american market as Paloma) I didn't use the stainless steel vent kit and haven't had any rust showing on the steel pipe I used to vent it yet.
If you get one, look for a condensing one, they are more expensive but more efficient, the condensing part means that they use a second heat exchanger to preheat the incoming cold water and cool the exhaust gas to the point it can be vented with PVC pipe as the exhaust is about 85*, on my tankless it is 215* or so, so I am loosing that heat.
My Paloma does have a remote thermostat so I can set the water temp I want coming out of the faucet with out touching the cold water tap, nice to not have to worry about my kids scalding them selves.
If you get one, look for a condensing one, they are more expensive but more efficient, the condensing part means that they use a second heat exchanger to preheat the incoming cold water and cool the exhaust gas to the point it can be vented with PVC pipe as the exhaust is about 85*, on my tankless it is 215* or so, so I am loosing that heat.
My Paloma does have a remote thermostat so I can set the water temp I want coming out of the faucet with out touching the cold water tap, nice to not have to worry about my kids scalding them selves.
that's good information,thanks...i'm looking forward to getting one..i'm getting some money...i just need a little motivation.
rather than insulating my hot water pipes I replaced all that I can reach with 3/4" pex, I got the pocketcrimper http://www.google.com/products/cata...og_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDsQ8wIwAg# (it was 25$ at home depot) to crimp the rings on the fittings and it works great. PEX looses about a third or so of the heat that copper does, the first change I noticed is that with the new run of pex from the hot water heater to the shower my wife wanted the remote thermostat turned down to 104 from her usual 106, and I found 104 to be as comfortable as 106. when you shut off the hot water and do something else for a few min. and then turn on hot water again it comes out warm instead of cold until the new from the hot water heater gets there.
That sounds like a very nice one compared to what I looked at, the one I looked at was 800 bucks so am wondering how much yours cost as it sounds like a much better unit.rowerwet said:
when I bought it at home depot it was $700 or so and the stainless vent kit they said you had to buy was another $300. I looked recently and the Rheem that home depot sells now is around a grand all by itself. I have a family of 5 with one on the way (two girls so far) so endless hot water is a must. I didn't check to see if it was condensing or not.
Home depot sold a Bosch aquastar also that had a pilot light (no electricity) and only put out one temp that was set with a slide bar control on the heater. don't know it they still do.
Home depot sold a Bosch aquastar also that had a pilot light (no electricity) and only put out one temp that was set with a slide bar control on the heater. don't know it they still do.
I have a Rudd instantaneous hot water heater. its cast iron and looks like a parlor stove. dang thing still works , not bad considering it was built in 1906.
We've had one for about 10 years. Bosch markets it in the USA.
It cost a lot to have it installed, because it needed a bigger supply line, which ended up requiring a two stage regulator, and it needed a bigger exhaust vent too.
I don't think it's any more efficient. The old water heater had a 30,000 but burner that ran for a while after a shower. The tankless has a 115,000 btu burner that runs the whole time.
Also, it's easy to make the burner cut out. It's got a flow detection system -- you don't want the burner to be able to run when the water isn't going, obviously, but in the summer I try to dial down the burner so we can use less propane, but then it cuts out while showering.
It was a great solution to our problem though, in that it made our floorplan work. With a tank heater there wasn't room for the washer and dryer.
It sounds like the newer models are better though.
It cost a lot to have it installed, because it needed a bigger supply line, which ended up requiring a two stage regulator, and it needed a bigger exhaust vent too.
I don't think it's any more efficient. The old water heater had a 30,000 but burner that ran for a while after a shower. The tankless has a 115,000 btu burner that runs the whole time.
Also, it's easy to make the burner cut out. It's got a flow detection system -- you don't want the burner to be able to run when the water isn't going, obviously, but in the summer I try to dial down the burner so we can use less propane, but then it cuts out while showering.
It was a great solution to our problem though, in that it made our floorplan work. With a tank heater there wasn't room for the washer and dryer.
It sounds like the newer models are better though.
I have a Ranai NG tankless water heater. It's my wife and I plus 3 kids. During the summers we only use the NG for our Cooktop and the water heater. Our actual gas consumption per summer month is around $5-7! Yes that is right. Total bill with service fee is usually $16. It has been this way for the last 4 summers so very consistant.
Downfalls: Instantaneous just means that it starts instantaneously. There is a greater lag since the water and pipes need to heat up a little from cold water vs the tank water is already at 140-160F. In addition, we have found that it is better to leave the water running while doing dishes as it does not keep the water temps up if you keep turning it on for 10 seconds and turn it back off for 30 seconds and repeat 20 times per washload. Took some getting used too, but works better now. For the record, we live out in the country and are on well water so we do not pay monthly water bills. All and all, we like the efficiency but the delay in hot water is annoying. If we ever did it again we would plumb it differently so that the tank was very close to the main sink in our kitchen. All other faucets, we doen seem to mind the wait.
Downfalls: Instantaneous just means that it starts instantaneously. There is a greater lag since the water and pipes need to heat up a little from cold water vs the tank water is already at 140-160F. In addition, we have found that it is better to leave the water running while doing dishes as it does not keep the water temps up if you keep turning it on for 10 seconds and turn it back off for 30 seconds and repeat 20 times per washload. Took some getting used too, but works better now. For the record, we live out in the country and are on well water so we do not pay monthly water bills. All and all, we like the efficiency but the delay in hot water is annoying. If we ever did it again we would plumb it differently so that the tank was very close to the main sink in our kitchen. All other faucets, we doen seem to mind the wait.
we have the bosch unit and have had it for about 6 years. theyre were 2 sizes and we opted for the larger to accomodate for a family of 4. i remember the instal well as i was up till 3 am with my neighbor changing gas line up to 3/4'' . luckly he is a plumber . i am familiar with these as they are common overseas and i know how my mothers unit is holding up still after many ,many years. theyre is a way to run the watter in a return from the farthest source point, id love to have this done as it seems to take a whyle to get hot watter upstairs in the bathroom at the sink.im also going to look into insulating the hot line. pete
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