Termites or Ants?

[HandyFrank]

I have had a stack of Holly and an unknown type of tree for a good 4 years that I haven't gotten around to burning. Year by year some gets burned, but I wasn't burning a ton the last year or two so there it stands. When my neighbor took down a tree (Unknown species) it was full of insect tunnels and while cutting the tree they were actually coming out of it. I forget now if they were ants or termites. So some of the wood went in my pile but there were no insects left or seen for a solid 3 years. Over the last summer they must have come back or went to work because now the wood has tons of saw dust in-between the wood. I burned a bunch of it over the weekend in an outdoor fire pit and I chopped some and didn't see any insects at all.

I read that carpenter ants like wet wood, this is nowhere near close to wet. A moisture meter will show 0-3 from the outside ends, and when split around 10-15 max or less.

Is this termites or maybe carpenter ants? No termite tunnels to be found, or insects, but tons of wood saw dust in-between the logs.

Any ideas?

 

[2PistolPacker]

Are there holes in the wood 1/4" or larger? Looks like the dust from a borer insect like a powder post beetle. They will eat into the wood in your house if they get the chance.

 

[HandyFrank]

Are there holes in the wood 1/4" or larger? Looks like the dust from a borer insect like a powder post beetle. They will eat into the wood in your house if they get the chance.

I didn't look to closely but I would say the holes were about that, 1/4" or smaller but i'll check again over the weekend.

This wood is well away from the house but is close to my free standing garage, but my guess is that it would go after the easy pickings first so i'm not that worried, but I do eventually want to put my good wood there. What can I do to keep them away??? Do I need to do some type of treatment to the area? I'm going to google it further since now that you mentioned beetle I can almost guarantee it wasn't termites or ants.

I forgot I took this picture but now remember, check this out. You can see a very clear and defined U and I in the wood. Something tells me you are right with the beetle suggestion. Whoever the pest was must have done this too. Pretty cool I would say.

 

[2PistolPacker]

Of the 10 cords I sold this year, I only found them in a 1/2 cord of locust . I got a medium sized walnut tree and a small dead locust tree from the same job site. The beetles must have been already in the locust tree because none of my other wood was affected. There is an abundance of dead black locust trees in the last couple of years in our area due to a fungus that is spreading among them. After I sold all my wood this fall I sprayed my back yard with a strong dose of Spectracide.

 

[HandyFrank]

Of the 10 cords I sold this year, I only found them in a 1/2 cord of locust . I got a medium sized walnut tree and a small dead locust tree from the same job site. The beetles must have been already in the locust tree because none of my other wood was affected. There is an abundance of dead black locust trees in the last couple of years in our area due to a fungus that is spreading among them. After I sold all my wood this fall I sprayed my back yard with a strong dose of Spectracide.

Interesting to hear it was in certain woods, but from the sound of it I bet they aren't picky. Mine is Holly and they didn't seem to touch the harder woods, but the Holly had a lot of rounds both big and small, so maybe they had more moisture and they went for that instead.

I just googled it a bit and it sounds like they are short lived, but the larvae are the ones that do the most damage and it happens in the hot months, so eggs can be waiting to hatch for the spring. Guess i'll be careful to only carry it in to burn and never leave a piece inside, or, i'll just go crazy one weekend and burn it all in my fire pit. Its old wood anyhow and I have better hardwoods for real fires. Going to read up more on possible treatment around the area.

Thanks again for the tips!

 

[Applesister]

It may be prudent to burn the infected wood and it may be a waste of wood. By the time you notice a problem, the bugs have usually vacated already.
The big tunnels may be long horned wood borers.(Asian longhorned beetle) There are also flat headed wood borers. The beetles are metallic (emerald ash borers)
Every tree species seems to have a type of borer that prefers that particular species.
Locusts have locust wood borers, they dont go after other trees, that I know.
Although I read that Elm bark beetles will attack Ash.
Are you creeped out yet?
I separate infected wood on a separate pallet from the clean wood and when I burn it it goes straight from the woodpile into the woodstove.
You may also want to peel back the bark on really infected wood. Most borers are right under the bark.
You could probably burn the bark in a barrel.

 

[HandyFrank]

It may be prudent to burn the infected wood and it may be a waste of wood. By the time you notice a problem, the bugs have usually vacated already.
The big tunnels may be long horned wood borers.(Asian longhorned beetle) There are also flat headed wood borers. The beetles are metallic (emerald ash borers)
Every tree species seems to have a type of borer that prefers that particular species.
Locusts have locust wood borers, they dont go after other trees, that I know.
Although I read that Elm bark beetles will attack Ash.
Are you creeped out yet?
I separate infected wood on a separate pallet from the clean wood and when I burn it it goes straight from the woodpile into the woodstove.
You may also want to peel back the bark on really infected wood. Most borers are right under the bark.
You could probably burn the bark in a barrel.

Thanks for the knowledge and more possible ideas. I split a bunch of this wood this past weekend and there was not one creepy crawler I could find at all. I didn't try to remove the bark and see, but it fell off some peices as I was going so I probably would have noticed if anything was there. Instead it looks like they left me with a bunch of saw dust, bored wood, and went on their way. What about the eggs that hatch early spring? Wouldn't they have in theory possibly climbed in and deposted the eggs?

I was thinking of just burning it since I have a load of nice dry hardwood that is ready to burn that I use inside. This infected wood I usually burn mostly outside in a fire pit or chiminea anyhow (Not in my fireplace much) but I won't be doing that again outside for many months, so I was considering trying to get rid of it to make room for the nicer wood I need that needs a place to stack. I'm a bit worried the bugs will return to the good wood if I do that though.

 

[Applesister]

Generally they emerge as adult beetles and fly off to mate and find new wood to lay eggs on. The larvae hatch and start tunneling into new wood from the outer bark. They tunnel around for a year...to possibly three as a grub where they pupate into an eventual beetle that emerges and flies off to do it again.
That is a basic unscientific explanation. And they generally emerge in the spring.
And yes the borers can get into new wood but I believe most of these species prefers live trees. Some do go after dry wood, some of the hickory borers.

 

[HandyFrank]

Generally they emerge as adult beetles and fly off to mate and find new wood to lay eggs on. The larvae hatch and start tunneling into new wood from the outer bark. They tunnel around for a year...to possibly three as a grub where they pupate into an eventual beetle that emerges and flies off to do it again.
That is a basic unscientific explanation. And they generally emerge in the spring.
And yes the borers can get into new wood but I believe most of these species prefers live trees. Some do go after dry wood, some of the hickory borers.

That would explain why there are no signs of bugs or larvae. If I have the time I'm going to chop some more up and peel the bark and see if I find any critters. If not i'll probably just carry it in and burn int while I light my fires and mix it into the hardwood so it gets good use.

Does Holly smoke a lot while burning compared to hardwoods?

Here are 2 more better pictures of the holes they made:

 

[Byrond]

TALSTSAR. Google it or a product called bifenthrin. It works well for just about anything that creeps and crawls, including termites

 

[Paulywalnut]

Looks like the beetle was trying to spell something Frank. Last message or something

 

[jdp1152]

I spritz the stack with permithrin once a year during the summer. Little to know known mammalian toxicity and kills the bugs.....and notably the ticks that the mice who build nests in stacks bring in. I've seen a massive decrease in the bugs that end up in the house when the time comes, as well as evidence of infestation. I'd like to get rid of the mice and snakes too, but I'm not willing to risk the rest of the ecosystem, particularly since they're both relatively benign up here. That being said, after moving a half a cord in September at 75 degrees outside, I got so tired of every other log having a snake or family of mice under it that I spent a good 25 minutes with my hurricane like leaf blower just hitting the stacks with air. Encountered quite a few less and mostly on the ground fleeing the scene. I'll adopt this habit before moving wood in the future, since waiting until cooler weather impacts my yard seeding time.

 

[HandyFrank]

Thanks again for the replies and info everyone. So this past weekend curiosity still had me wondering if the bugs/larvae got big and fled the scene, or were still around. From the look of the holes and amount of dust, it looked to me like the perfect place to stick around. Well, I was right, I grabbed a piece of wood that had a few holes in it and started to chop it and take a look at what I found.

I first shaved some of the bark off as a few of you had mentioned earlier where they like to live, you can see all the small pathways where they ate just under the bark level. Then I split the piece and look who I found inside. A larvae that was hibernating, completely motionless but when I squished it plenty of fresh goo came out. I split the piece of wood even more and found a few more inside.

Anyone know what type of larvae this is by looking at the picture by chance? This wood species is Holly. Looks like I'll be doing a big burn off soon.

 

[sportbikerider78]

Carpenter ants are unmistakable. You see them and think, "thats a big ant". They have big pinchers on their mouth too. They don't eat wood...they live it in. Def damp wood.
Termites are weird looking sometimes yellowish harmless looking things.

I'd pull the wood and torch it. It's good to minimize the amount of those things around.

I don't see any pics you posted.

 

[lindnova]

I have seen similar in dead elm wood before. Not sure what they are though.

 

[2PistolPacker]

It might be a good idea to move this wood away from your other wood and building, but since they are dormant in the winter I believe you have until spring to burn this wood with little risk of these spreading. There are at least a half dozen borer beetle species that the larvae bodies looks like this, you might ID this one by the dark head circle.

 

[Scooter422]

Found some Stag beetle larvae in some hedge I split this year. They were huge! At first thought they were baby mice! Guess I ruined the cycle of life!