That one piece that won't burn

[rudysmallfry]

I started a top down fire this morning. The bottom piece was a large square of what looked like Maple but I'm not really sure. It was that hard middle heart wood stuff. For whatever reason, that bottom piece took forever to light up and would not stay lit if I closed the door. The rest of the pieces on top had long since burned out leaving just that bottom piece smoldering. I had to leave the house and had two choices, leave the door cracked open a hair so it stayed lit, or shut the door and let it smolder. I opted for option two but worried about how much crap was building up in my chimney by the smoldering piece. When I got home a few hours later, it was all burned up but the front glass was so dirty you could not see through it. Now I'm forced to pull it apart tomorrow and do a quick sweep before lighting back up. but obviously taking everything apart every time I get a stubborn piece is not an option.

Of those two options, which is the better choice?

 

[TheRambler]

A quick hot fire will clean that glass right up.

 

[rudysmallfry]

My concern is starting a hot fire after letting the pipe clog up with whatever the smoldering piece deposited.

 

[Dix]

I'd clean that puppy while you can, gonna get cold and icey real quick.

 

[rudysmallfry]

Supposed to be 34 tomorrow...heat wave! Just enough time to pull it apart and clean before the next storm comes in.

 

[kennyp2339]

Lets not go crazy here, (1) smoldering load is not going to clog your whole system, before you go tearing things apart look at your chimney cap, If you can see daylight through it (talking metal mesh type) your fine. The caps will always clog up before the chimney pipe because the smoke is the coolest at the cap. But it never hurts to give a mid winter cleaning. Also be careful if your going on your roof is there ice and snow.

 

[gyrfalcon]

My concern is starting a hot fire after letting the pipe clog up with whatever the smoldering piece deposited.

Better safe than sorry until you're super-familiar with the way your set-up reacts to this, but...

I went through two winters doing things like this pretty frequently until I got the hang of things, and never had more than a couple cups of sooty creosote come out of the chimney when I had it cleaned in the fall. I asked my expert installer/sweep about whether I should worry about it, and he just laughed at me. This was with the tiny Hearthstone Tribute stove that had a maximum running temp of 350 to occasionally as high as 400. I do have a new insulated SS chimney and just about perfect draft, though, and maybe you're not as ideally set.

Still, as far as I know, it's not possible to clog your chimney with a single crappy piece of wood that smolders for a few hours.

With a variable wood supply that occasionally has such clunkers it it, I've learned not to put a big piece flat on the floor of the firebox like that, especially on a start-up without a substantial hot coal bed. Stand it up on edge, if there's room, or lay down a few small bits, 1 or 1/2-inch kindling splits, before putting the big one on top, especially if you're doing top-down starts, so the air can get underneath and the fire has a chance to take hold.

So by all means, pull things apart and see what your chimney looks like this time and decide what to do the next time this happens, if it ever does, based on what you see.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Lets not go crazy here, (1) smoldering load is not going to clog your whole system, before you go tearing things apart look at your chimney cap, If you can see daylight through it (talking metal mesh type) your fine. The caps will always clog up before the chimney pipe because the smoke is the coolest at the cap. But it never hurts to give a mid winter cleaning. Also be careful if your going on your roof is there ice and snow.

+1

This fall when my guy came to sweep the chimney, he had a new assistant who, like most people around here, grew up with and still used an old smoke dragon, had never even heard of an EPA stove. He told him to look at the chimney cap and how little it was even stained, and the kid's eyes just about popped out of his head. He quizzed me very skeptically about how much I actually used the stove, and when I told him I burned 24/7 all winter, he simply did not believe me.

I don't have the driest wood supply, usually 20 to 25 MC, so I end up with more slow-starting fires and smoldering than I'd like if I don't get it loaded exactly right. But still, the Heritage and the insulated SS chimney cope with it brilliantly, and there's only the faintest woodsmoke smell outside for a few minutes on reload or start-up.

 

[rudysmallfry]

Yeah, this is my first year with double wall pipe, so I am a bit curious how I'm doing on the inside. I have been burned hotter than I was with the single wall so it should be pretty clean in there. The dirtiest part is always my elbow and T-connector to the outside, so I'll just take a peek at those spots and see if it warrants a cleaning.

 

[rudysmallfry]

gryfalcon, looks like we have the same setup in terms of double wall and SS chimney. Mine stays very clean too. I'm just new to the double wall part. I'm curious. How hot do you normally get your soapstone? Mine seems to have a preference for 400.

 

[gyrfalcon]

gryfalcon, looks like we have the same setup in terms of double wall and SS chimney. Mine stays very clean too. I'm just new to the double wall part. I'm curious. How hot do you normally get your soapstone? Mine seems to have a preference for 400.

Cruising range is 400 to 450. If I do everything exactly right, it'll head on up to 500-550, but doesn't stay there very long.

A lot of this depends on what wood I put in it. My favorite high-BTU for midwinter is beech, but I also have a nice stash this year of black birch and hickory. The birch is hot, but burns a little fast. The hickory is hot and long-burning, but is reluctant to ignite. For me, what's turned out to be the ideal combination for peak temp is a mix of maybe 1/3 rock maple (sugar maple) or yellow birch, and 2/3 beech/hickory/black birch. The rock maple and yellow birch burn easily and pretty hot, which gets the higher-BTU going quickly.

I don't use really large splits because the firebox on the Heritage is fairly small and also they're never as dry. The fire needs some air circulation around and in between the splits to do its thing properly, so I always try to load things so there are cracks in between to get that inside-the-firebox draftiness going.

The species or BTU of the stuff in the box seems to be much less important to folks with bigger stoves, but I've found that extra kick from the beech or black birch makes a difference of 50 degrees or so, which really matters when you're heating with a fairly small soapstone stove.

Also, just btw, I haven't had to use a firestarter in the morning since fall. I've always got enough hot coals in the morning to get something going, though I do usually have to start with a handful of splitting debris and work up from there, which takes longer, I guess, but is a more reliable route for making sure it all goes well.

 

[rudysmallfry]

Yeah, I'm about done with larger splits too. I agree with you that the Heritage does better with more air flow through smaller splits. It is easier to cram them all in there too. I wish I had enough hot coals to work with in the morning, but my stove goes a good 12 hours without my help so there's not much I can do about that. I am still impressed that it still holds heat so long after the fire goes out, but I do have to relight every morning.

Good to know your stove like the same heat range. I thought I was doing something wrong, but mine has trouble getting and staying above 450 too. I'll have some hickory next season. For now, I'm stuck with birch, maple and cherry. It's all good stuff as long as I pack it right. I knew putting that big piece in there was stupid while I was doing it, but had too much else going on to rethink it.

 

[BradleyW]

Personally I would never leave a fire unattended that I just started from cold. They are too unpredictable, and they don't produce that much heat, so it's not really worth it. For me that fire is really just to get a good base of coals so that I can start a real fire. Then the burns are more predictable and I have enough experience to know pretty much what is going to happen.

 

[rudysmallfry]

Personally I would never leave a fire unattended that I just started from cold. They are too unpredictable, and they don't produce that much heat, so it's not really worth it. For me that fire is really just to get a good base of coals so that I can start a real fire. Then the burns are more predictable and I have enough experience to know pretty much what is going to happen.

I don't leave new fire until it's peaked heat wise and leveled off, hence my dilemma for the piece that would not cooperate.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I knew putting that big piece in there was stupid while I was doing it, but had too much else going on to rethink it.

Heh. Been there, done that, though since I work out of a home office, it's usually when I'm loading for overnight and I'm suddenly way too sleepy to care.

"Maple" can range from crap silver maple through red maple up to the king of maple, sugar or rock maple. I could survive on all rock maple. I have zero use for the other two, especially the silver, which doesn't like to burn and gives insignificant heat when it finally condescends to. Black cherry, which I've had in quantity this year for the first time, I like. It's almost ideal for shoulder season, and burns -- briefly -- hot enough to get better stuff going in colder weather.

Hickory is really good stuff, especially for long overnight fires, but it does, in my experience, need something quicker burning mixed in with it to ignite well.

I'm way north of you and my house is a semi-insulated leaky old farmhouse, so after 12 hours, I got nothin'. Nice to know this stove can give you heat for that long in a somewhat warmer climate, though. Mine for sure does not in mid-winter. It's usually down around 150 or 200 and the back-up oil burner is running to keep things at 60 when I get up.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Personally I would never leave a fire unattended that I just started from cold. They are too unpredictable, and they don't produce that much heat, so it's not really worth it. For me that fire is really just to get a good base of coals so that I can start a real fire. Then the burns are more predictable and I have enough experience to know pretty much what is going to happen.

Yep, agree with that entirely, although "never" is more than I could commit to. But unless you really know your stove from long experience and have total confidence in your fuel, it's asking for non-performance to load it up on a cold start and walk out the door a half hour later. OTOH, when you're expected at work, it's tough. Working from a home office, I usually have the luxury of baby-sitting it until it's in full cry, but not everybody does.

 

[rudysmallfry]

Oh it's not still warm enough to be of use, but I'm just impressed that it's not stone cold. I knew I would be away from the house more than I was at home which is why I chose soapstone. It turned out to be a great choice. I just refilled my oil tank and had only used 173 gallons since early October, so I'm doing well this season.

 

[Wood Duck]

If I had one piece that won't burn, I'd pull it to the front, as if it were coals, and stack come additional wood on top of it. That would burn it up and give some good heat at the same time. treat it like a coal.

 

[gyrfalcon]

If I had one piece that won't burn, I'd pull it to the front, as if it were coals, and stack come additional wood on top of it. That would burn it up and give some good heat at the same time. treat it like a coal.

Don't know if that would have worked in this case, the way the OP describes it, but in my experience, you're totally right that putting something on top of the reluctant piece will often get things going. It's kind of counterintuitive, but it really does work. Once the upper piece ignites, it seems to encourage the piece just below to do it, too.

 

[rudysmallfry]

I had some birch and cherry splits on top. They burned down to nothing within an hour and that stubborn piece was barely smoking. I might as well have put a brick in there.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I had some birch and cherry splits on top. They burned down to nothing within an hour and that stubborn piece was barely smoking. I might as well have put a brick in there.

Sorry to laugh, but as I say, been there, done that. I've called it "sulking" on this forum ion the past. I know it well.

No, you're right, it won't work if the stuff on top is very lightweight and the object below is a completely unwilling slab flat on the bottom of a cold firebox. If you have any more of those, just prop 'em up on small splits to give them a chance.

We never had a woodstove when I was growing up, but we did have a fireplace, and my mother (note, not my father) was purely brilliant at getting and keeping a fire going. She worked on it by instinct and childhood memories (born in 1912 in rural midwest), so couldn't really articulate the principles, but I could see that what she was doing when she messed with a fire that wasn't working right was poking pieces of wood a bit apart from each other. Bingo, a smoldering fire was raging in no time flat. A fire runs on air, and just the primary inlet on a stove isn't enough to do the trick with a tightly packed mass of fuel when there's no coal bed and the stove is cold.

 

[gyrfalcon]

)

Oh it's not still warm enough to be of use, but I'm just impressed that it's not stone cold. I knew I would be away from the house more than I was at home which is why I chose soapstone. It turned out to be a great choice. I just refilled my oil tank and had only used 173 gallons since early October, so I'm doing well this season.

I have friends here with cast stoves, and i'm certainly impressed with the real blast of heat they put out. But then they consume their fuel and the stove quickly goes cold. There are times when the temp here is double-digit below zero and I'd LOVE that much heat but I'm happier in the long term with the gentler, more long-lasting heat from the soapstone for sure. Each to his own. (I'm using about 150 gallons of fuel oil a year now, but I'm more wiling to tolerate low temps in the morning than most people.)

 

[rudysmallfry]

So the curiosity got the best of me. I took the inside pipe off and took a peek. I'm loving this double wall pipe. It looks completely new inside except for a little buildup around the damper. There was quite a bit of that cottage cheese looking stuff in the wall connector section, but that is where I always get the most buildup since that's where the hot air hits the cold. I cleaned it out and left the outside chimney alone. It's not like I can reach it anyway without walking in 2' of snow. I cleaned off my glass and am now enjoying a nice warm fire without fear of what might be in there.

 

[gyrfalcon]

So the curiosity got the best of me. I took the inside pipe off and took a peek. I'm loving this double wall pipe. It looks completely new inside except for a little buildup around the damper. There was quite a bit of that cottage cheese looking stuff in the wall connector section, but that is where I always get the most buildup since that's where the hot air hits the cold. I cleaned it out and left the outside chimney alone. It's not like I can reach it anyway without walking in 2' of snow. I cleaned off my glass and am now enjoying a nice warm fire without fear of what might be in there.

Good news.