The Scan 60 versus the Englander 17VL

[papercarver]

Hi Folks:

My husband and I are attempting to choose our first wood stove and we would greatly appreciate the benefit of your Exhaustive Collective Wisdom (we've been lurking around the site for weeks and boy are we impressed!).

THE SITE: We live in an 8 year old, open plan Cape with a 1008 sq.ft. footprint and a second floor loft which brings the total area to approx 1400-1500 sq.ft. The house is TIGHT: no drafts whatsoever, and if you open the bathroom door the front door closes! The main space (kitchen/dining/living rm) is 28'x20', with 14'x20' of *that* space open to the loft above. The remaining space on the first floor is our bedroom, 1 and a half bathrooms, and a mudroom. There is a ton of glass (2 sets of french doors, 4 windows) in the main space.

THE CUSTOMERS: My husband has never lived with a wood stove before, and so is an absolute total rank beginner as to how to operate a stove. In a previous life I lived in a house heated by an extremely persnickety 1970's-era Vermont Castings which pretty much sucked the romance out of wood-burning for me. I haven't stoked a wood stove since 1997 and fear things have changed a fair bit...

THE GOAL: We are hoping to find a stove that will a) keep the oil burner from coming on as much as possible; and b) give us a back-up heat source for power outages.

THE IMPOSSIBLE BIT: We both really want a contemporary looking (what seems to be described in the literature as "Euro styling") stove that doesn't cost an insane amount (ie. over $2500) and doesn't require 12" logs. We loved the Morso contemporary line, but can't reasonably see ourselves cutting all our firewood in half for the rest of our lives to fit a stove.

The two stoves that *seem* to fit our needs/wants are the Scan 60 and the Englander 17VL, and we're frankly shocked at the price difference in these two stoves (we've found the Scan 60 for $2100 and the Englander 17VL for $769).

We like the clean lines and simplicity of both stoves, and we like the large glass windows on both stoves. We can't figure out which one would heat our space the most consistently.

The Scan 60 seems to have some problems with cracking plates and the Englander 17VL seems to be slow to heat up with initial draft problems. Call me unreasonable, but it creeps me out that the only place I can get the Englander 17VL is from Home Depot (NOT usually the first place one goes for good quality stuff).

So? Any thoughts? Any strong feelings about either stove? Any suggestions of a similar looking stove we might have missed? All replies are gratefully welcomed,

papercarver

 

[raybonz]

Hi Folks:

My husband and I are attempting to choose our first wood stove and we would greatly appreciate the benefit of your Exhaustive Collective Wisdom (we've been lurking around the site for weeks and boy are we impressed!).

THE SITE: We live in an 8 year old, open plan Cape with a 1008 sq.ft. footprint and a second floor loft which brings the total area to approx 1400-1500 sq.ft. The house is TIGHT: no drafts whatsoever, and if you open the bathroom door the front door closes! The main space (kitchen/dining/living rm) is 28'x20', with 14'x20' of *that* space open to the loft above. The remaining space on the first floor is our bedroom, 1 and a half bathrooms, and a mudroom. There is a ton of glass (2 sets of french doors, 4 windows) in the main space.

THE CUSTOMERS: My husband has never lived with a wood stove before, and so is an absolute total rank beginner as to how to operate a stove. In a previous life I lived in a house heated by an extremely persnickety 1970's-era Vermont Castings which pretty much sucked the romance out of wood-burning for me. I haven't stoked a wood stove since 1997 and fear things have changed a fair bit...

THE GOAL: We are hoping to find a stove that will a) keep the oil burner from coming on as much as possible; and b) give us a back-up heat source for power outages.

THE IMPOSSIBLE BIT: We both really want a contemporary looking (what seems to be described in the literature as "Euro styling") stove that doesn't cost an insane amount (ie. over $2500) and doesn't require 12" logs. We loved the Morso contemporary line, but can't reasonably see ourselves cutting all our firewood in half for the rest of our lives to fit a stove.

The two stoves that *seem* to fit our needs/wants are the Scan 60 and the Englander 17VL, and we're frankly shocked at the price difference in these two stoves (we've found the Scan 60 for $2100 and the Englander 17VL for $769).

We like the clean lines and simplicity of both stoves, and we like the large glass windows on both stoves. We can't figure out which one would heat our space the most consistently.

The Scan 60 seems to have some problems with cracking plates and the Englander 17VL seems to be slow to heat up with initial draft problems. Call me unreasonable, but it creeps me out that the only place I can get the Englander 17VL is from Home Depot (NOT usually the first place one goes for good quality stuff).

So? Any thoughts? Any strong feelings about either stove? Any suggestions of a similar looking stove we might have missed? All replies are gratefully welcomed,

papercarver

Welcome to the forum and wood burning. Take a look at the Fusion series by PE they might be what you're looking for. I have no idea of the cost though..
(broken link removed to http://www.pacificenergy.net/pacificenergy/gallery.php)

(broken link removed to http://www.pacificenergy.net/pacificenergy/fusion.php)

Ray

 

[papercarver]

Welcome to the forum and wood burning. Take a look at the Fusion series by PE they might be what you're looking for. I have no idea of the cost though..
(broken link removed to http://www.pacificenergy.net/pacificenergy/gallery.php)

(broken link removed to http://www.pacificenergy.net/pacificenergy/fusion.php)

Ray

Thanks, Ray. We both really like the look of the Fusion, which turns out to cost basically the same as the Scan 60. Now we're debating between the Scan 60 and the Fusion...

 

[begreen]

Between the two, I'd go for the Fusion. I think it will stand up better over time and based on its heritage I think it will provide longer burn times. You might also look at the Regency Alterra 1200.

Other interesting stoves that would work for you are the Blaze King Chinook 20 and the Osburn Matrix. But we are getting up in price with these models.

 

[jeromehdmc]

I have a Scan A-10. We use it as supplemental heat which is good because of it's smaller firebox. It does a great job but at times I do wish it had a larger firebox. If I remember right the 60 is a little smaller than the A-10. The Fusion has a larger box and I think you can load it N/S. If the price is the same I would go with the larger stove, especially if you like the looks.
Be sure to listen to the advise given here and don't be afraid to ask any questions, you'll be surprised how fast they get answered. Also have seasoned wood on hand, get a moisture meter and use it. These new stoves don't like green wood.

 

[raybonz]

Thanks, Ray. We both really like the look of the Fusion, which turns out to cost basically the same as the Scan 60. Now we're debating between the Scan 60 and the Fusion...

I looked at the stove manual for the Fusion and it looks like they use the same firebox as the T5 and also is NS loading stove. That being said you can expect 10+ hour burns as that is what I get here. The efficiency of the Fusion is higher than the Scan stove as well. The last plus is the Fusion uses standard size firebricks which are inexpensive to replace and easier to obtain.. This stove should heat your home with little trouble especially since it is very tight and well insulated. If too tight you would need to add an OAK to get enough air to run your stove.There is a Pacific Energy dealer on the Cape and one in S. Dartmouth where I bought my T5 as an unused floor display model at a decent price..

Ray

 

[MaintenanceMan]

Well, I can't really help you compare any of these stoves to the 17vl as to my lack of experience with any other stove, but I can comment on the 17.

Thus far I have I have had no draft or heat up problems. My chimney is right at what Englander requires and I start with a cold stove every morning. I can have the stovetop up to temp in around 45 mins. Sometimes less. I am a bit puzzled why you mentioned draft and start up problems with the 17. Out of curiosity, where do those concerns stem from?

You do have other options for buying an Englander online and I would say you can do a bit better than $769. Especially if you wait until summer to purchase. I did purchase mine through Home Depot for $499 during the summer with free shipping to my door and have no complaints. This excerpt from the 17's manual might explain why you are seeing it primarily at places like Home Depot.

"Englands stove works was started, and is still owned by, a family that believes strongly in a "Do It Yourself" spirit; that's one reason you found this product at your favorite "Do It Yourself" store."

You can also shop:

http://www.overstockstoves.com/50tvl17--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1250171200.html

(broken link removed to http://www.amfmenergy.com/50tvl17--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1250171200.html)

Northern tool has a few other stoves in similar designs you might want to check out. Bosca, Drolet as well as the 17
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Ns=P-SalesRank|1

I can't say enough good things about my 17. I've been quite impressed with this stove.

 

[raybonz]

Well, I can't really help you compare any of these stoves to the 17vl as to my lack of experience with any other stove, but I can comment on the 17.

Thus far I have I have had no draft or heat up problems. My chimney is right at what Englander requires and I start with a cold stove every morning. I can have the stovetop up to temp in around 45 mins. Sometimes less. I am a bit puzzled why you mentioned draft and start up problems with the 17. Out of curiosity, where do those concerns stem from?

You do have other options for buying an Englander online and I would say you can do a bit better than $769. Especially if you wait until summer to purchase. I did purchase mine through Home Depot for $499 during the summer with free shipping to my door and have no complaints. This excerpt from the 17's manual might explain why you are seeing it primarily at places like Home Depot.

"Englands stove works was started, and is still owned by, a family that believes strongly in a "Do It Yourself" spirit; that's one reason you found this product at your favorite "Do It Yourself" store."

You can also shop:

http://www.overstockstoves.com/50tvl17--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1250171200.html

(broken link removed to http://www.amfmenergy.com/50tvl17--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1250171200.html)

Northern tool has a few other stoves in similar designs you might want to check out. Bosca, Drolet as well as the 17
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTESearch?storeId=6970&catalogId=11652&langId=-1&pageSize=12&beginIndex=0&sType=SimpleSearch&resultCatEntryType=2&showResultsPage=true&pageView=image&N=0&No=20&Nao=20&Ntt=WOOD STOVES&searchTerm=WOOD STOVES&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode matchallpartial&Ns=P-SalesRank|1

I can't say enough good things about my 17. I've been quite impressed with this stove.

I don't doubt the 17 is a good stove but I feel it is way undersized for this application plus the OP stated they are thinking about heating the entire home and less than 8 hr. burns is an issue not to mention 16" max log size can be a problem and the firebox is 1.1 cu. ft.. This is why we are steering them towards a 2.0 cu. ft. firebox so they can heat and cook 24 hrs. a day even with power loss. My home is similarly sized to the OP in the same climate since we live about 1.5 hrs. apart with them being north of me so a bit colder there. There is no way the 17 would heat my home 24/7. This being said the OP has a budget of roughly $2,000 so can afford a bit more. My primary concern is the OP's satisfaction based on their requirements..

Ray

 

[MaintenanceMan]

I don't doubt the 17 is a good stove but I feel it is way undersized for this application plus the OP stated they are thinking about heating the entire home and less than 8 hr. burns is an issue not to mention 16" max log size can be a problem and the firebox is 1.1 cu. ft.. This is why we are steering them towards a 2.0 cu. ft. firebox so they can heat and cook 24 hrs. a day even with power loss. My home is similarly sized to the OP in the same climate since we live about 1.5 hrs. apart with them being north of me so a bit colder there. There is no way the 17 would heat my home 24/7. This being said the OP has a budget of roughly $2,000 so can afford a bit more. My primary concern is the OP's satisfaction based on their requirements..

Ray

I certainly don't disagree that a bigger stove would be better for 24/7 heating if that is indeed what the OP's goal is. Just offering up some information about a stove they inquired about in their OP.

 

[raybonz]

I certainly don't disagree that a bigger stove would be better for 24/7 heating if that is indeed what the OP's goal is. Just offering up some information about a stove they inquired about in their OP.

I hear you MM take a look at the OP's goal this is why I am suggesting a larger stove.. I hear the 17 is a great little stove and looks pretty good too Their home is average size so a medium stove would work best in that situation if the goal is to minimize oil usage and heat their home. How big is your home, location etc. and do you heat 24/7 with the 17? Unfortunately Englander doesn't make a larger version of the 17 as they might be popular. On another note I like the look of the Fusion in black and know what the T5 can do and expect similar results which would work great in a 1500 sq. ft. home.. Sorry if I came off the wrong way and apologize if I offended you..

Ray

 

[papercarver]

Between the two, I'd go for the Fusion. I think it will stand up better over time and based on its heritage I think it will provide longer burn times. You might also look at the Regency Alterra 1200.

Other interesting stoves that would work for you are the Blaze King Chinook 20 and the Osburn Matrix. But we are getting up in price with these models.

Thanks, begreen: your opinion is very similar to our "gut instincts" and this has really leaned us towards the Fusion. I think we'll skip looking at the Regency, Blaze King and Osburn just because the amount of choices is beginning to make our (especially the husband's) head spin!

There's a Pacific Energy dealer in Hampton Falls, NH about 9 miles from us who can get us the Fusion for about $2200.

 

[papercarver]

I have a Scan A-10. We use it as supplemental heat which is good because of it's smaller firebox. It does a great job but at times I do wish it had a larger firebox. If I remember right the 60 is a little smaller than the A-10. The Fusion has a larger box and I think you can load it N/S. If the price is the same I would go with the larger stove, especially if you like the looks.
Be sure to listen to the advise given here and don't be afraid to ask any questions, you'll be surprised how fast they get answered. Also have seasoned wood on hand, get a moisture meter and use it. These new stoves don't like green wood.

Thanks jerome: I am LOVING the advice on this site! I am especially paranoid about how dry are wood needs to be, since we live in what they call a "maritime climate" (translation: sea mist every morning even though the water is over a mile away, and LOTS of windy rainstorms). I've never used a moisture meter before, but I'll get one and figure it out. In my previous burning days, we'd get enough "dry" wood delivered to let at least a cord sit over 2 summers, and then get in the habit of burning the 2 yr old stuff and replenish it so some wood was always sitting and curing. My husband and I intend to do this the same way now, but we plan to have a woodshed for storing the cured wood (rather than leaving it out with a tarp over the top the way I did in the 1990's). I hate burning wet wood anyway, but these new hyper-efficient stoves won't tolerate it will they?

 

[papercarver]

I looked at the stove manual for the Fusion and it looks like they use the same firebox as the T5 and also is NS loading stove. That being said you can expect 10+ hour burns as that is what I get here. The efficiency of the Fusion is higher than the Scan stove as well. The last plus is the Fusion uses standard size firebricks which are inexpensive to replace and easier to obtain.. This stove should heat your home with little trouble especially since it is very tight and well insulated. If too tight you would need to add an OAK to get enough air to run your stove.There is a Pacific Energy dealer on the Cape and one in S. Dartmouth where I bought my T5 as an unused floor display model at a decent price..

Ray

Thanks Ray - I think the Fusion is going to be the one. We *are* going to put in an OAK just to be sure that neither we nor the fire quietly suffocates. There are actually three PE dealers within 20 miles of us up here on the North Shore, so getting one should be no problem.

Forgive my ignorance: what is an "NS" loading stove?

 

[raybonz]

Thanks Ray - I think the Fusion is going to be the one. We *are* going to put in an OAK just to be sure that neither we nor the fire quietly suffocates. There are actually three PE dealers within 20 miles of us up here on the North Shore, so getting one should be no problem.

Forgive my ignorance: what is an "NS" loading stove?

YW the Fusion does indeed use the same firebox as my T5! NS loading means North-South in other words the wood loads straight into the stove so it will not roll out when you open the door.. Your location is further north than I thought so you're about 2hrs. from or around 1hr. from Boston? On the OAK it makes a lot of sense with a very tight home such as yours..

Ray

 

[papercarver]

Well, I can't really help you compare any of these stoves to the 17vl as to my lack of experience with any other stove, but I can comment on the 17.

Thus far I have I have had no draft or heat up problems. My chimney is right at what Englander requires and I start with a cold stove every morning. I can have the stovetop up to temp in around 45 mins. Sometimes less. I am a bit puzzled why you mentioned draft and start up problems with the 17. Out of curiosity, where do those concerns stem from?

You do have other options for buying an Englander online and I would say you can do a bit better than $769. Especially if you wait until summer to purchase. I did purchase mine through Home Depot for $499 during the summer with free shipping to my door and have no complaints. This excerpt from the 17's manual might explain why you are seeing it primarily at places like Home Depot.

"Englands stove works was started, and is still owned by, a family that believes strongly in a "Do It Yourself" spirit; that's one reason you found this product at your favorite "Do It Yourself" store."

You can also shop:

http://www.overstockstoves.com/50tvl17--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1250171200.html

(broken link removed to http://www.amfmenergy.com/50tvl17--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1250171200.html)

Northern tool has a few other stoves in similar designs you might want to check out. Bosca, Drolet as well as the 17
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTESearch?storeId=6970&catalogId=11652&langId=-1&pageSize=12&beginIndex=0&sType=SimpleSearch&resultCatEntryType=2&showResultsPage=true&pageView=image&N=0&No=20&Nao=20&Ntt=WOOD STOVES&searchTerm=WOOD STOVES&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode matchallpartial&Ns=P-SalesRank|1

I can't say enough good things about my 17. I've been quite impressed with this stove.

Thanks for your feedback, MM: *your* experience with the 17 (which we read about when we were lurking on the site) is why it was in the running for our purchase - by the way, your install of this stove is GORGEOUS. There's nothing like doing a custom-for-yourself job. I read about draft problems and slow warm up times in the reviews posted at the Home Depot site. Everyone who submitted a review *loved* the stove, but mentioned they had to keep the door open on the stove to get a draft first thing and they couldn't really load it up for over an hour at start-up. I just thought that was notable. That said, I could find no bad reviews for the Englander anywhere. So why aren't we going for the extremely affordably priced Englander? My husband prefers the look and the firebox size of the PE Fusion.

Also, forgive me if you (or anyone else reading this) is put out at the way I somewhat slammed Home Depot. I have an attitude towards HD because of numerous things I've bought there over the past decade that are just not a well made as they should be. My biggest rant is for cheap and crummy fasteners (ie. screws that strip out the second you put the drill to them). I am always nervous about purchases at HD that cost over $100. That said, I must admit that we bought a really inexpensive commercial ceiling fan from HD 8 years age that's still going strong.

 

[papercarver]

YW the Fusion does indeed use the same firebox as my T5! NS loading means North-South in other words the wood loads straight into the stove so it will not roll out when you open the door.. Your location is further north than I thought so you're about 2hrs. from or around 1hr. from Boston? On the OAK it makes a lot of sense with a very tight home such as yours..

Ray

Aha! I thought it possibly meant North-South, but couldn't figure out what *that* would mean ! Got it. Newbury is north of Cape Ann, pretty close to the NH border (maybe 7 miles?). We're about an hour north of Boston.

My home is so tight (how tight is it?)... the first time we ran the whole house fan (with the windows ajar to pull in cooler night air) we heard something flapping in the bathrooms. It turned out the contractor hadn't glued down the center of the linoleum and the suction created by the WHF was *pulling up the linoleum*.

 

[Woody Stover]

The house is TIGHT: no drafts whatsoever, and if you open the bathroom door the front door closes

That indicates air leakage, not tightness. Maybe you don't even need an OAK. If it was an easy retrofit, I might be inclined to wait and see if I needed it.

I read about draft problems and slow warm up times in the reviews posted at the Home Depot site. Everyone who submitted a review *loved* the stove, but mentioned they had to keep the door open on the stove to get a draft first thing and they couldn't really load it up for over an hour at start-up.

Some reviews should be taken with a grain of salt IMO; These problems could be due to wet wood, poor chimney draft, or other issues not due to the design of the stove. I would trust the opinions of experienced posters here, like MM, more than those of other potentially less-experienced users.
A way to think of N/S is that the primary air is coming in at the end of the splits, and the load is parallel to the air flow into the stove...

 

[begreen]

Thanks jerome: I am LOVING the advice on this site! I am especially paranoid about how dry are wood needs to be, since we live in what they call a "maritime climate" (translation: sea mist every morning even though the water is over a mile away, and LOTS of windy rainstorms). I've never used a moisture meter before, but I'll get one and figure it out. In my previous burning days, we'd get enough "dry" wood delivered to let at least a cord sit over 2 summers, and then get in the habit of burning the 2 yr old stuff and replenish it so some wood was always sitting and curing. My husband and I intend to do this the same way now, but we plan to have a woodshed for storing the cured wood (rather than leaving it out with a tarp over the top the way I did in the 1990's). I hate burning wet wood anyway, but these new hyper-efficient stoves won't tolerate it will they?

Lots of living in rainy climates have built woodsheds and are glad we did. They make dry wood predictable! I have stacks outside under tarps and water still creeps in there and along the faces. I can burn that wood, but it is not like the perfectly dry wood I have coming from the shed.

 

[MaintenanceMan]

I hear you MM take a look at the OP's goal this is why I am suggesting a larger stove.. I hear the 17 is a great little stove and looks pretty good too Their home is average size so a medium stove would work best in that situation if the goal is to minimize oil usage and heat their home. How big is your home, location etc. and do you heat 24/7 with the 17? Unfortunately Englander doesn't make a larger version of the 17 as they might be popular. On another note I like the look of the Fusion in black and know what the T5 can do and expect similar results which would work great in a 1500 sq. ft. home.. Sorry if I came off the wrong way and apologize if I offended you..

Ray

Nope, no offense taken. Everyone is just trying to help the OP make an informed decision. I'm really not trying to steer them towards the 17. I'm just offering up info about the stove because they inquired about it.

My house is 1350 sq ft in Southern IN with a pretty open floor plan and fairly good insulation. I don't heat 24/7 with the 17 nor would I ever recommend it as a overnight burning stove. I sacrificed firebox size to gain the better clearances that the 17 offers. I was finding it hard to fit a larger stove into my plans. My thoughts were similar to what the OP posted. I wanted something that would keep the gas furnace from coming on as much as possible. The 17 accomplishes that very well. I burn it from the time I get up and start a cold stove (still some glowing embers) to the time I dial in the last load and go to bed. So more like 18/7. My furnace normally only kicks on a few times before I get up. The past few gas bills have finally given me some insight on how well I am doing. My last bill was for $46 for the month. That's for hot water, clothes dryer, cook stove, AND furnace. By comparison similar months last year, temperature and usage wise, were around $125. So I am definitely saving money and all the while keeping the house warmer and a lot more comfortable.

I do utilize the blower with this stove. I think that's one reason it's working out so well. With my somewhat open floor plan and the blower running the heat spreads quite well in my house. I really feel that running the blower makes a huge difference in output with this stove. I like to keep it around 72-74 in the house and so far it's really been pretty easy.

 

[MaintenanceMan]

Thanks for your feedback, MM: *your* experience with the 17 (which we read about when we were lurking on the site) is why it was in the running for our purchase - by the way, your install of this stove is GORGEOUS. There's nothing like doing a custom-for-yourself job. I read about draft problems and slow warm up times in the reviews posted at the Home Depot site. Everyone who submitted a review *loved* the stove, but mentioned they had to keep the door open on the stove to get a draft first thing and they couldn't really load it up for over an hour at start-up. I just thought that was notable. That said, I could find no bad reviews for the Englander anywhere. So why aren't we going for the extremely affordably priced Englander? My husband prefers the look and the firebox size of the PE Fusion.

Thanks for the compliment!

I do have to leave the door cracked for a bit, myself, during a cold start. But not too long and I don't think that is all that uncommon in general. Now I have no problems with how I load it. I can load it up tight first thing or whenever and don't really have any trouble getting started or with the draft.

I think you'll find PE has a lot of satisfied owners here and offers some great products. I enjoy burning wood for heat a lot and hope you find the same satisfaction I have in whatever stove you decide on. You've certainly came to the best sight to learn from that there is.

 

[raybonz]

Nope, no offense taken. Everyone is just trying to help the OP make an informed decision. I'm really not trying to steer them towards the 17. I'm just offering up info about the stove because they inquired about it.

My house is 1350 sq ft in Southern IN with a pretty open floor plan and fairly good insulation. I don't heat 24/7 with the 17 nor would I ever recommend it as a overnight burning stove. I sacrificed firebox size to gain the better clearances that the 17 offers. I was finding it hard to fit a larger stove into my plans. My thoughts were similar to what the OP posted. I wanted something that would keep the gas furnace from coming on as much as possible. The 17 accomplishes that very well. I burn it from the time I get up and start a cold stove (still some glowing embers) to the time I dial in the last load and go to bed. So more like 18/7. My furnace normally only kicks on a few times before I get up. The past few gas bills have finally given me some insight on how well I am doing. My last bill was for $46 for the month. That's for hot water, clothes dryer, cook stove, AND furnace. By comparison similar months last year, temperature and usage wise, were around $125. So I am definitely saving money and all the while keeping the house warmer and a lot more comfortable.

I do utilize the blower with this stove. I think that's one reason it's working out so well. With my somewhat open floor plan and the blower running the heat spreads quite well in my house. I really feel that running the blower makes a huge difference in output with this stove. I like to keep it around 72-74 in the house and so far it's really been pretty easy.

At 1st glance I was unsure of the looks of this stove and the Fusion (they are similar) but it has grown on me and think Englander would do well if they doubled the size of that firebox.. I like the clearances on the 17 with hearth value of .5 the hearth is easy to build! The 13 has stiff hearth r-values and the 30 is stiff but much less than the 13. I have no NG option here or I would be less finicky about heating the entire house... I like the direction that stove builders seem to be taking with the hybrid stove to give you the best of both worlds and burn cleanly! Love to see the fireshow in secondary burn stoves and like the low and slow that a cat provides a win-win situation Overall I am satisfied with the T5 and it is very efficient and easy to operate. Hope to see a 17 in operation some day too! Thanks for the feedback

Ray