The world’s most unlikely solar farms

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.

sloeffle

Minister of Fire
Mar 1, 2012
1,299
Central Ohio
We were in Alaska a few years ago, and I talked to one of the guides about how expensive it was up there. She complained about the cost of electric too. If I remember correctly, she told me her average electric bill was $300 per month. !!! The cost of groceries was roughly double of what it is in Ohio.

 
Last edited:
We were in Alaska a few years ago I talked to a guide about how expensive it was up there. The cost of groceries was roughly double of what it is in Ohio. She complained about the cost of electric too. If I remember correctly, she told me her average electric bill was $300 per month. !!!

I think the carbon counter at the bottom of the article is neat.
 
It would be interesting to see how the power demand lines up with the power production from solar. My guess is power demand is inverse to solar potential. There is still demand in the summer so it does offset fossil generation so its good thing.

A previous company I worked for had a niche installing wind/diesel solutions. Many of the remote power systems are based around diesel generators, the company supplied arctic grade wind turbines to offset the diesel generation. The wind blows a lot during the Artic winter so wind generates power more in line with the demand. It cuts down on the amount of fuel that needs to be hauled in.
 
Last I checked I was paying about 25c/kwh. The majority of that was the flat fee for the privilege of attaching to their grid. It doesnt get spread out by many kwh of usage.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceBus
Last I checked I was paying about 25c/kwh. The majority of that was the flat fee for the privilege of attaching to their grid. It doesnt get spread out by many kwh of usage.

Wow!... we get a little better deal out here in central Oregon:

1582589266713.png
 
$43.83 in fees and charges for 234kwh.

Hey, its 19c/kwh now! Woohoo! Lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceBus
Hopefully this doesn't turn into a political debate. Why are rates in NE so high compared to the rest of the country ? Ohio isn't very far ( 400 miles ) from NE and I pay 14c/kwh and that is after a recent rate increase from 12c/kwh.
 
Hopefully this doesn't turn into a political debate. Why are rates in NE so high compared to the rest of the country ? Ohio isn't very far ( 400 miles ) from NE and I pay 14c/kwh and that is after a recent rate increase from 12c/kwh.

Mostly due to the switch to natural gas powerplants and the limited pipeline capacity of gas coming in. There is big opposition to adding pipeline capacity. During severe cold we fire up tons of oil powerplants as the gas capacity gets diverted for heating. I bet gas cost double or more than what you pay in Ohio as well.

Same goes for propane prices. The midwest will play like a dollar or so a gallon and most of New England pays 2 to 3 times that.
 
Last edited:
Why does power cost more in some areas than others? It gets complicated. Some states have fossil fuels in their backyard, some don’t. PA is sitting on the Marcellus gas fields and previously burned a lot of coal and nuclear. Coal is cheap fossil fuel and with a federally subsidized inland water way system in place, coal is a cheap way to create power. Parts of the south have the federally subsidized TVA system. New England really has little local fossil. The Marcellus field extends up into New York but the state of NY has elected not to allow tapping it.

Alaska is a special case, there is no grid in much of the state, there is minimal gas infrastructure so much of the generation is fossil fuel hauled in from elsewhere as there is no refining capability in the state.

All of the New England states and some of the mid Atlantic are members of the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI) which effectively put a “carbon tax” on power generation. If you look at the map at this site https://www.nrdc.org/resources/regional-greenhouse-gas-initiative-model-nation it shows you what states are in it or are joining it. More important it also shows the states who are not in it. RGGI tends to raise the electric rates of RGGI states as they would be hard pressed to burn coal and even gas generation is becoming an issue especially with the carbon free nuclear fleet slowly aging out. As the RGGI targets squeeze to smaller numbers, the state’s end up having to go with more renewables. The Clean Power Plan which was intended to get the US in compliance with various global carbon reduction agreements would have impacted many states, generally the RGGI states didn’t have to do much but coal dependent states were looking at significant investments and increased power costs.

Politicians had a choice in the highest carbon emitting states, they could ignore global warming and get elected or reelected and be long since retired before their grandkids grew up to a seriously climate affected world or they could voluntarily choose to make changes now. The results from the past presidential election tended to show that the states potentially most impacted by Clean Power Plan tended to vote Republican. The republican party ran opposed to the CPP.

There are also some interesting linkages to religious belief and carbon pollution. Areas with large evangelical populations, like the US southeast that subscribe to near term End Times philosophy really could care less about the state the world is in the future as they will have ascended into heaven long before or god will have interceded to cure the problem. For some reason the option of the Noah’s Ark concept of wiping out the population and starting over is not something they figure in. Areas without that philosophy realize that there is only one earth and if mankind elects not to do something about carbon, the world will still be here but it may not be suitable for humans to live here.

Most of the New England states and several other states have gone further and have set renewable portfolio standards that require a certain percentage of power supplied by the utilities be renewable. This is separate from the RGGI market but intertwined. If a utility does not have enough renewable generation, they have to buy renewable credit from other producers. Some state like Mass do a “carve out” of the renewable portfolio to be generated in state. The costs for these programs are usually billed back to the ratepayers as a surcharge on power. Unfortunately, large power users have options, they can move their businesses to states with cheap power or they can generate their own while an individual ratepayer has fewer options. These system benefit charges and RGGI costs are making an ever-larger portion of individual power bills. For folks in Mass, the standard comment about installing solar is you can either pay to have it installed on your house and get paid for generating power or you can pay for your neighbor to.

There is already significant correlation between carbon models and climate. The atmosphere is getting more energy into it and that means more significant weather extremes nationwide. If folks care to irrationally ignore it that’s their prerogative but its hard to argue the point rationally. I expect at some point the US will elect to deal with carbon pollution and then suddenly states with cheap power will suddenly have to raise their rates to put in renewables while the RGGI states will not.
 
Last edited:
The one upside here is we have some crazy generous incentives for solar, heat pumps, insulation, etc. I think I have recieved almost $8k in rebates and incentives on my home. My 20k solar panels cost me only 8k after the state incentive and 30 percent federal rebate. Payback period was 5 years and then its free power the next 15-20 years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sloeffle
Yup the system is designed to reward those who make the move to higher efficiency, unfortunately its comes out of the pockets of people that may not be able to afford or are renting who cant put in the new equipment.