Hearthstone vs Progress, bee in bonnet
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Did not mean to sound like I was coming down on you about wanting a new stove- we all love new stoves and if you can find one you like better, more power to you. I too did not like the 3CB's short wood requirement and I brought it up to my Jotul rep, he smiled and said it will fit 18" wood, yep maybe one smaller piece... About the RHS though, I thought if it was removed, there was a piece for the secondary burn system held in place with the rear shield?? Not a good idea to run that stove without the RHS in place. I do agree with you about the woodstocks, the Progress and Fireview are very nice looking stoves. I'd think heat wise, the Fireview would be a great choice, but if the wife likes the Progress's looks, that sounds like your new stove. Stay warm.
>But many people start out buying too small of a stove, based on price or fear of overheating the space.
For me the small stove wasn't so much either price or fear of overheating, but more like fear of smoldering. In the old days when "airtight" stoves were a thing, late 70s, early 80s, we would put big chunks of maple into our old-style big Vermont Casting stoves and shut them way down, not knowing any better. I think they had some kind of thermostat to keep them at a nice smoky smolder? Then open it up when it gets really cold -- but a lot of smoldering most of the time. So much smoke and creosote and wasted wood. Burned 6 cords of wood but probably got 2 cords worth of heat according to how I burn now. So I didn't want to have a too big stove for shoulder season. I don't know, but it seems like shoulder season is expanding quite a lot here.
The F 3 CB is in fact too small for this space in the coldest weather, but just a bit. It's not that we get cold, it's just that the stove gets very hot. We never say (with the stove burning well) "The stoves going but we're cold." We do say, "Yikes, look at that (stovetop) thermometer!" I guess sometimes we do rather crowd around it and the cats would go inside it if they could get in. But mostly it is warm enough in here.
With the mini split, these days, by the time we are thinking of lighting the wood stove at all, we are ready for some serious heat. So my old way of thinking, that the stove would mostly be just right through all the shoulder season and then sometimes struggling in January -- that idea is now obsolete. The stove has a different job altogether. It's to carry the heavy load in real winter, no thought of shoulder season.
I'm assuming with the Progress that the mini split is going to be pushed aside in the real winter. Instead of dove-tailing with the woodstove, I'm guessing in the cold part of winter the mini split will be mostly not running or not running hard.
For me the small stove wasn't so much either price or fear of overheating, but more like fear of smoldering. In the old days when "airtight" stoves were a thing, late 70s, early 80s, we would put big chunks of maple into our old-style big Vermont Casting stoves and shut them way down, not knowing any better. I think they had some kind of thermostat to keep them at a nice smoky smolder? Then open it up when it gets really cold -- but a lot of smoldering most of the time. So much smoke and creosote and wasted wood. Burned 6 cords of wood but probably got 2 cords worth of heat according to how I burn now. So I didn't want to have a too big stove for shoulder season. I don't know, but it seems like shoulder season is expanding quite a lot here.
The F 3 CB is in fact too small for this space in the coldest weather, but just a bit. It's not that we get cold, it's just that the stove gets very hot. We never say (with the stove burning well) "The stoves going but we're cold." We do say, "Yikes, look at that (stovetop) thermometer!" I guess sometimes we do rather crowd around it and the cats would go inside it if they could get in. But mostly it is warm enough in here.
With the mini split, these days, by the time we are thinking of lighting the wood stove at all, we are ready for some serious heat. So my old way of thinking, that the stove would mostly be just right through all the shoulder season and then sometimes struggling in January -- that idea is now obsolete. The stove has a different job altogether. It's to carry the heavy load in real winter, no thought of shoulder season.
I'm assuming with the Progress that the mini split is going to be pushed aside in the real winter. Instead of dove-tailing with the woodstove, I'm guessing in the cold part of winter the mini split will be mostly not running or not running hard.
Ah interesting that the RHS is important for function! I know where it is. Maybe I'll bolt it on. I always figured it was just a plenum of very hot air rising over the stove with the RHS on -- and there sure is already enough hot air rising up to the high altitudes. I'm not sure the ceiling height -- 8 or 9 feet? -- but if I go up on a ladder or step stool for some reason, oh man, that's where all the heat is.
I personally like the big slab of hot soapstone behind the stove as a sort of radiant heat shield, but my wife would prefer it not to be there. She prefers the look of the big granite slab. Maybe she gets her way (she often gets her way, I'm nice that way), but maybe she gets her way with the RHS and granite until we get the progress.
I personally like the big slab of hot soapstone behind the stove as a sort of radiant heat shield, but my wife would prefer it not to be there. She prefers the look of the big granite slab. Maybe she gets her way (she often gets her way, I'm nice that way), but maybe she gets her way with the RHS and granite until we get the progress.
Stopped by Woodstock today. My wife ran errands with me today, a rare Friday off for her. She hadn’t seen the stove I bought, so brought her by. She liked the Progress a lot. I asked her if she hated the Absolute, which do look better in person (and to me, better each time I see them). She said she liked them OK. I said the Progress is $1000 ish more. She said it looks $3000 better. Sticking with the Charcoal. They didn’t have one with blue paint around, which was in consideration. We asked if they had any word from EPA. Nope. Everyone biting finger nails. She said they get multiple calls a day about it.
Meanwhile in Jotul land, brought in some wood, organized the wood shed a bit. I had some dried cherry stacked in the corner, the entry point for the this-year wood on one side of the shed. It was a mess. I had thrown a bunch of small maple rounds on top of it basically in a pile. Split and tested those maple rounds, which were from a Maple tree that died a year ago and I cut last winter. I would really have figure those 1” diameter rounds would be dry by now. 20%. They got moved over to the next-year pile. Cherry, for this year, tested 11% in the middle of a fresh split. Jotul is ready to go, but still mini split time.
Meanwhile in Jotul land, brought in some wood, organized the wood shed a bit. I had some dried cherry stacked in the corner, the entry point for the this-year wood on one side of the shed. It was a mess. I had thrown a bunch of small maple rounds on top of it basically in a pile. Split and tested those maple rounds, which were from a Maple tree that died a year ago and I cut last winter. I would really have figure those 1” diameter rounds would be dry by now. 20%. They got moved over to the next-year pile. Cherry, for this year, tested 11% in the middle of a fresh split. Jotul is ready to go, but still mini split time.
I got word that Regency is also having problems with getting the EPA and IRS to provide a QM number so that they can update their certificate. Hard to do when there's no one in the office.
I saw a news article that it was only yesterday that EPA furloughed a bunch of staff. Up to that point they had been using some reserve funds or something, but yesterday they said, “OK, end of this road.” I think even when “fully functional” the cuts they’ve had before now have been so devastating. Can only imagine they are trying to prioritize what to do, or had been. Now I guess it’s close to zero.
OK, it’s officially on the EPA site as of this afternoon. Progress Hybrid is a crib-wood tested certified stove. They’ve significantly narrowed the BTU output range: 15257-35222 btu/hour. I’m sure Woodstock isn’t happy about that change. Both ends of it make me nervous, theoretically worse than my Jotul 3CB on either end. Just looking at the ranges on the EPA site it makes the Fireview seem to be a far superior stove, or more flexible anyway. In practice, I’m sure the PH will put out more heat than my little Jotul, and I’m assuming that with some attention to fuel load size I can manage some lower end heat as well. I’m assuming it can crank out far more heat than the Fireview, in spite of the 35,222 number on the EPA site (vs the FireView’s EPA 56,499 btu/hr top end). Anyway, I assume they’ll start shipping them and I’ll get mine soon-ish.
I wouldn’t worry about the EPA crib wood test results. They are not anywhere near real world burning. The old cordwood test is closer to where a real wood burner would see. Hopefully you will see your stove soon.
There was some concern in this topic I think that the Progress would be too much stove for my place. I am going through some serious wood in the good old Jotul 3 CB this last week. It’s a bit chilly, not as cold as winter gets. Got to -4F last night. Stove is heating OK, except of course it won’t hold a fire overnight. I also have managed to control the Jotul, which is a good trick in this weather. Yesterday evening was not just below 10F but really windy. I could hear the wind howling at the stove. Trick is to never open the air supply at all and be careful how much wood you put in. The small firebox sort of limits that anyway. Other years I remember biting my nails as the stove top thermometer moved up over the “good” range. Maybe during spells colder than we are having, which we certainly will get.
In Vermont, probably other rural northern states(?) there’s an old farm saying, “Candlemas Day, Candlemas Day, half your wood, and half your hay.” At this rate, I’m easily going to go through more than half my wood by Feb 2. “Half my wood” just means half the wood shed, the dry half, but I can turn the corner in the back of the other half to get some maple I cut last winter and ash cut last spring. Anyway, the little Jotul is eating a lot of wood and putting out a lot of heat.
In Vermont, probably other rural northern states(?) there’s an old farm saying, “Candlemas Day, Candlemas Day, half your wood, and half your hay.” At this rate, I’m easily going to go through more than half my wood by Feb 2. “Half my wood” just means half the wood shed, the dry half, but I can turn the corner in the back of the other half to get some maple I cut last winter and ash cut last spring. Anyway, the little Jotul is eating a lot of wood and putting out a lot of heat.
That is just the tested output with a fixed weight of wood for testing purposes. It does not reflect normal usage with full loads of cordwood.
Good news. The PH is just a 2.8 cf stove and Woodstock has been known to exaggerate their volume measurements. Sort the epa list by firebox volume and you’ll see that the PH is not very large, and being stone it’s not something I’d worry about being too much stove. Enjoy it!
Yeah, I think I can modulate the heat by letting it settle to coals if need be, and most of the season it will be just cranking along. From what I read, I’m also not worried about it being too little heat, even if those EPA numbers come out with way less output than the 3 CB (which is still on the EPA site under legacy stoves, with a range up to 56k!)
I wasn’t going to bug them with a call just yet, though I did email my sweep/installer. But my wife was more excited than I thought she was. Either that or she’s sick of hearing me fret over it. But she called. She doesn’t know if she talked to Todd or Tom, but they sounded very happy. They get the EPA tags supposedly on Tuesday and can start shipping then.
I wasn’t going to bug them with a call just yet, though I did email my sweep/installer. But my wife was more excited than I thought she was. Either that or she’s sick of hearing me fret over it. But she called. She doesn’t know if she talked to Todd or Tom, but they sounded very happy. They get the EPA tags supposedly on Tuesday and can start shipping then.
The firebox on my 3 CB is so tiny. I guess it helps with efficiency and flexibility. It cuts both ways. To my eyes in comparison the Progress firebox is like an airplane hanger.
And really the entire history of my adult and more “sophisticated” wood burning has been in small fireboxes, if I count the Tulikivi, which was tight but super tall. Up to 1985 when I was young and clueless, living in rented houses with other young and clueless people, we had various smoke dragons with pretty big fireboxes, where we would smolder big green logs. Yuck. But after that it’s been all small fireboxes and no creosote.
And really the entire history of my adult and more “sophisticated” wood burning has been in small fireboxes, if I count the Tulikivi, which was tight but super tall. Up to 1985 when I was young and clueless, living in rented houses with other young and clueless people, we had various smoke dragons with pretty big fireboxes, where we would smolder big green logs. Yuck. But after that it’s been all small fireboxes and no creosote.
My Progress Hybrid is ready to pick up at Woodstock tomorrow! Unfortunately my sweep, installer is all jammed up, he says until 12/29. Cutting it awfully close!
I had been trying to set a date with him, penciled in, in case the stove got ready, but he wouldn't. Now he's jammed up. I guess one way or another it'll work out. Eventually.
I had been trying to set a date with him, penciled in, in case the stove got ready, but he wouldn't. Now he's jammed up. I guess one way or another it'll work out. Eventually.
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