There's a pic of the Woodstock Cat thermometer in this post. Looks like a surface reader, not probe. If so, a standard Condar stove top thermometer will work.
Hearthstone vs Progress, bee in bonnet
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Yeah, that’s the stovetop one that goes on the metal by the pipe. The cat one would be different.
That's all I see mentioned in the manual.
The catalytic combustor will start to burn the gases and particles in the smoke when the temperature of the smoke reaches approximately 500ºF, or after about 10-15 minutes of establishing a strong fire. Each stove comes with a surface thermometer. Use the surface thermometer to monitor your stove temperatures. The temperature on top of the stove is approximately 1/2 the temperature inside the stove, so when the thermometer on the stove top reads 250ºF, it is 500ºF inside.
You will find that after the combustor is engaged, surface temperatures will often rise considerably - evidence that the combustor is producing lots of heat!
The catalytic combustor will start to burn the gases and particles in the smoke when the temperature of the smoke reaches approximately 500ºF, or after about 10-15 minutes of establishing a strong fire. Each stove comes with a surface thermometer. Use the surface thermometer to monitor your stove temperatures. The temperature on top of the stove is approximately 1/2 the temperature inside the stove, so when the thermometer on the stove top reads 250ºF, it is 500ºF inside.
You will find that after the combustor is engaged, surface temperatures will often rise considerably - evidence that the combustor is producing lots of heat!
That's what the sweep said, that they stopped including the probe thermometer. They updated the digital manual, but my printed manual says, "Each stove comes with a surface and probe thermometer."
He said it was too much, supporting people confused by the probe thermometer and high temps, I guess a lot of calls, "Help, my stove is 2000 degrees!"
I found the spot where it screws in. the manual says it's 1" downstream from the cat, so, yeah, there's a bolt plugging that hole.
On the second small fire break in fire, got it just barely hot enough for the cat to fire. It took a long time for the chimney to be smoke free when I engaged the cat at stove-top 250F. The stove top thermometer they gave me seems super accurate, tracks with my IR.
I sure wish I didn't have to go look at the chimney to see if it's fired.
Overall the stove was smokier at the chimney up until the cat fired than if I started a fire in the cold Jotul 3 CB, but then the Jotul is designed to burn clean without a cat in the mix.
He said it was too much, supporting people confused by the probe thermometer and high temps, I guess a lot of calls, "Help, my stove is 2000 degrees!"
I found the spot where it screws in. the manual says it's 1" downstream from the cat, so, yeah, there's a bolt plugging that hole.
On the second small fire break in fire, got it just barely hot enough for the cat to fire. It took a long time for the chimney to be smoke free when I engaged the cat at stove-top 250F. The stove top thermometer they gave me seems super accurate, tracks with my IR.
I sure wish I didn't have to go look at the chimney to see if it's fired.
Overall the stove was smokier at the chimney up until the cat fired than if I started a fire in the cold Jotul 3 CB, but then the Jotul is designed to burn clean without a cat in the mix.
You might find the engagement temperature for light off increase a bit as the Combustor ages. It starts out hyperactive and settles down. I put a new one in at the beginning of this burning season and it still lights off with 250F stovetop measured on the stone plate just in front of the top flue cap.
WS tried hard to make the combustor visible thru the window when they designed the stove but it just wasn't feasible on the Progress.
WS tried hard to make the combustor visible thru the window when they designed the stove but it just wasn't feasible on the Progress.
My copy of the manual is from 2019. I just checked Woodstock's site for the PH and see the probe section that you mention has been added. Thanks for the tip. I'll update my docs. It would be nice if they indicated the probe depth.
I can see how some folks are confused by the cat temps. BK and others have gone to showing just cat activity ranges now with no temperature demarcations.
On the second break in burn I proved that at least with a new cat it’s possible to have a low and slow burn. Beyond kindling it was just two quite small spits and a bigger small split. After the cat lit it was just the bigger small split on top of a small bed of coals, and the cat stayed burning for a bit after the last small flame went out, keeping the stove top temp at just over 250F. Stove is definitely putting out heat we can feel nicely, but not keeping up with the weather with this small fire. It’s 8F outside. I just turned off the mini splits and am letting the oil carry the load. I’ll make a bigger fire at bedtime after this cools down.
I wouldn’t go down the cat temp rabbit hole. Just use flue temps as your guide to run the stove.
I mostly would want to know when/if the cat crashes if I’ve shut down too much or too soon, or if it really has lit. The rest of the time I’m not going to worry about the cat temp. I think for the next period I’ll mostly be burning with a pretty steady fire, but probably shutting down some for the overnight. I’m going to try using the stove instead of the mini split for the overnight for the real cold.
I haven’t burned a cat stove since about 1999-2002, and that was a VC Intrepid, the worst stove experience I’ve ever had. I could never get the hang of that stove. In ‘98 I had a Dutchwest cat stove, and that worked OK, just kept it hot all winter and the cat did its thing as needed.
I have to re-learn everything about running a stove now after 17 years with the Jotul 3 CB, which is as different a stove as can be..
I haven’t burned a cat stove since about 1999-2002, and that was a VC Intrepid, the worst stove experience I’ve ever had. I could never get the hang of that stove. In ‘98 I had a Dutchwest cat stove, and that worked OK, just kept it hot all winter and the cat did its thing as needed.
I have to re-learn everything about running a stove now after 17 years with the Jotul 3 CB, which is as different a stove as can be..
Glad to see you beat the install deadline. Fill that thing up and let it eat!
Was that the Everburn VC stove that was fondly known as "Neverburn"?
The Intrepid we had I don’t think was an everburn, but functionally it was a neverburn. I just really didn’t want to use it, and when I tried I wished I hadn’t. That house had floor heat powered by oil. I wanted to burn some wood to cut some of the oil use and bill, had a nice stack of dry wood under a big eave, facing south. But I never wanted to light the stove after a bit.
The Dutchwest I guess has been maligned a lot, but this one was fine for that little bit. I burned slab wood in it. I also had two friends with them, and they liked them OK too. But I never got another one.
One of those friends who burned a Dutchwest replaced it with a Woodstock Ideal Steel. He thinks it’s the best upgrade ever. He is off grid and 100% wood heat.
The Dutchwest I guess has been maligned a lot, but this one was fine for that little bit. I burned slab wood in it. I also had two friends with them, and they liked them OK too. But I never got another one.
One of those friends who burned a Dutchwest replaced it with a Woodstock Ideal Steel. He thinks it’s the best upgrade ever. He is off grid and 100% wood heat.
I'm off grid with heating oil thanks to two Woodstock stoves, wish I could say the same with electric.
We pay horrible electric prices in MA and I didn't want to spring for solar.
First real fire this morning, put 21 pounds in. Could have squeezed more in with the wood I’ve got, and way more if I had 21 or 22” wood instead of the 16”. Anyway, 21 is good as an experiment, because that’s what the 3 CB would eat by the end of a slow weekend breakfast — but with about 4 sessions of adding wood by now.
The Progress has indeed burned it by now, coals with wispy flames. My sense is the Progress is putting out more heat than the Jotul would be, feels warm. I guess the normal course of things would be to let these coals in there for a while before reloading, but we’ve got to run errands. I’ll put more splits in and shut it down after a bit of flaming.
I made a small fire at about 9:30 last night, break in fire #3, a couple of real splits in there. The stove was still warm this morning! Probably not putting out a whole lot of heat, but actually warm, not luke warm.
The Progress has indeed burned it by now, coals with wispy flames. My sense is the Progress is putting out more heat than the Jotul would be, feels warm. I guess the normal course of things would be to let these coals in there for a while before reloading, but we’ve got to run errands. I’ll put more splits in and shut it down after a bit of flaming.
I made a small fire at about 9:30 last night, break in fire #3, a couple of real splits in there. The stove was still warm this morning! Probably not putting out a whole lot of heat, but actually warm, not luke warm.
I think you will notice there being a lot less room temperature swings with the PH due to the thermal mass of the soapstone. For us, it was immediately apparent when we went from the F400 to the T6.
That is true! I've read posts where people say it's not enough soapstone mass to matter, but those posters usually don't actually own a soapstone stove.
It definitely makes a difference. I found this also true with our cast-iron jacketed stove.
He also has that big slab of soapstone behind the stove. That may help even out the heat as well.
I have an oversized brick fireplace around my install which grabs and radiates heat.
One reason I have trouble thinking about moving is I have such a great wood stove setup, It would be hard to duplicate.
One reason I have trouble thinking about moving is I have such a great wood stove setup, It would be hard to duplicate.
In the past (after having had a Tulikivi for 15 years) I absolutely thought the soapstone stoves were sort of a gimmick. Kept me from even considering them. But OMG. The soapstone is amazing. So 21 pounds first thing in the morning, below 10F. Then a couple hours later another 15 pounds, 9:30 am. Now at 3 PM it’s 71 in here with 18F outdoors. I would have been putting logs in the Jotul all day.
Stopped by Woodstock to pick up some parts that didn’t make it with the order and got to chat with Lorin, and Tom came out and chatted for a bit. It was great to chat with them. I had some geeky questions for them I wish I had asked. Like: is it OK to just shut it way down to smoke and let the cat eat it like a Blaze King? Is that harder on the cat than burning a flame? Is it in general harder on the cat to run the hybrid favoring cat vs flame? Anyway, it was nice to stop by there. They are still building Progress stoves to get out the door in ‘25
Stopped by Woodstock to pick up some parts that didn’t make it with the order and got to chat with Lorin, and Tom came out and chatted for a bit. It was great to chat with them. I had some geeky questions for them I wish I had asked. Like: is it OK to just shut it way down to smoke and let the cat eat it like a Blaze King? Is that harder on the cat than burning a flame? Is it in general harder on the cat to run the hybrid favoring cat vs flame? Anyway, it was nice to stop by there. They are still building Progress stoves to get out the door in ‘25
Tom or Lorin would never think a question is too geeky, believe me 🤓
The cat is very happy to eat smoke with no flame. In that mode, the overall stove throws less heat until eventually the gases light in the firebox and that's when you get maximum heat. The problem I have with that mode, especially in warmer weather, is the back puffing due to insufficient flue height. Sometimes it can result in quite the explosion and a violent raising of the soapstone lid so I try to get a flame going before the stovetop hits 500F.
One such incident traumatized my alleged dog resulting in her never trusting the stove again. She vacates the room when it's lit.
My Avatar was pre-traumatized dog.
The cat is very happy to eat smoke with no flame. In that mode, the overall stove throws less heat until eventually the gases light in the firebox and that's when you get maximum heat. The problem I have with that mode, especially in warmer weather, is the back puffing due to insufficient flue height. Sometimes it can result in quite the explosion and a violent raising of the soapstone lid so I try to get a flame going before the stovetop hits 500F.
One such incident traumatized my alleged dog resulting in her never trusting the stove again. She vacates the room when it's lit.
My Avatar was pre-traumatized dog.
Interesting. I think I’ve got good pull from the chimney. The sweep who set it up was telling me I needed to keep the door open when starting fires, but I ignored him and shut it, and started the fire. Right now it’s shut almost all the way down and I’ve got lazy flames and a 400 degree surface. Tom and Lorin both agreed they personally don’t like the cat probe thermometer and think it interferes with operating the stove. We did talk about that.
I have an external flue thermometer on single wall pipe 12ish inches above the surface and another to the right of the flue on the cast iron. I engage the cat when the flue is reading 275-300ish, shut the air down to virtually nothing over the following 5-10 minutes and almost always maintain secondary combustion through the life of the load. The surface temp is nice to know but I never manage the cat based off of it.
Also, I agree that the soapstone holds heat and I've changed my burning habits pretty significantly since getting the PH. I'm generally only loading once or twice per day and letting it ride 12 hours or more except on the coldest days when I load three times. I would love to get my hands on a big slab of 2 or 3 inch soapstone to add even more mass but have never come across anything suitable.
Also, I agree that the soapstone holds heat and I've changed my burning habits pretty significantly since getting the PH. I'm generally only loading once or twice per day and letting it ride 12 hours or more except on the coldest days when I load three times. I would love to get my hands on a big slab of 2 or 3 inch soapstone to add even more mass but have never come across anything suitable.
What did they say about this? I’ve often wondered if you lose some cat life if all you do is burn low and slow maximizing the heat from the cat?
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