This is going to blast us out isn't it?

[DAFFODIL]

Hi heating gurus,

I am looking for information regarding a stove that was offered to me for sale.

First off, I live in the Susitna Valley in Alaska where temps often get down to -30 or below during our fairly long winter. The average winter day is probably in the +10-20 degree range. We will be temporarily living in a 24x24 foot fairly well insulated shop (would be considered well insulated in the lower 48). The shop has 12 foot walls with a half loft--so it is a very open plan. The ceiling peak is 6 feet above the wall level, so it is a vaulted ceiling. We will be heating with wood but will have toyo oil stove as backup at set at 50 degrees.

Second, the stove is a "40's version Vermont Castings Defiant." He is offering it to me for half what I could buy it for new.

I have not yet seen the stove. It seems to me, though, that this stove would blast us out of the house. What other questions should I be ready to ask him. Does this seem like a good deal?

I would appreciate all gentle comments because I'm a girl and I'm new at this.

Thank you
Daffodil

 

[elkimmeg]

Welcome aboard: I see no reason you should not get gentle responses. Personally, I would steer clear of a stove that old
It's not vermont castings, they did not start manufacturing till the 70's. Replacement part figure there are none. Most of the real old stoves were not air tight ( interpetation, you are going to burn a lot of wood, always live with the possibility of have a run away fire and a large % of your heat will exit up the chimney. Expect more cresote issues). you will have to be constantly tending the fire adding wood and trying to control it. Because of no secondary burn, you are going to emitt a large amount of pollutants.

Suggestions and money seems to be an issue, monitor Craig's list, or Ebay and local classified ads Target stoves newer than 1985 that are UL listed, better yet 1990 or newer EPA approved. I would think you should look into a medium range stove of about 40,000 Btus. Stick with brand names and from manufactures still in business. Replacement parts are still available. Look into new cheaper models of major manufactures like centry made by Vermont Castings. Home depot sells the Englanders, not bad. I am sure others will have more suggestions. There is a lot of experienced help on the forum. Should you find a used stove post your findings and ask questions. It's a little early in the season, but I will repost my primers for purchasing a stove and for what to look for in a used stove. You made no mention of how you are planning to vent a stove? The chimney is important to the opperation of the stove. The more info you provide, the forum members will help you make an educated decision and provide the oppinions why

I hope that was gentle enough. There are a lot of factors to consider, dry seasoned wood supply and most important safety

 

[daffodil_1]

Thank you for replying, elkimmeg, and yes your reply was gentle enough. Money is a factor, but not as big as it would seem. We're not broke, we're just building our house and outbuildings without a mortgage. We do not want to skimp, but it would be nice to get something less expensive that would get us through a few years while we are building.

As for your primers on buying a stove: can I get there from here? I didn't see anything like that while I was scaning the site last night.

Regarding venting a stove: That is a big issue. We have a large potential snow load. Many chimneys bite the dust every year by being pushed over during snow melt. Many advocate venting out the side of the house using 90 degree angles. There idea is to save the chimney and to prevent punching a whole in the roof that could cause leakage. Just reading over the night, however, I can tell that stovewise this idea is unwise (ha). Am I right that draft would be decreased and creosote build up would be increased?

By the way, if we buy an expensive stove now, it will end up going into our house. Our house will be a modest size (1000-1200) square ft with an open floor plan, but it will be super insulated.

Thank you again
Salmonberry
(I had password problems, so I am now daffodil_1 also)

 

[Harley]

Hi, Daff..

I was confused on the description of the stove, as Elk said, VC wasn't around in the '40's... is that possibly a model # or part of a model # that the seller may be referring to?

For a 24 X 24 open floorplan living area, I think that might be a little big if it is a Defiant. But then again, I'm not sure what the availability of used stoves might be in your area.

As far as the venting/exhaust of any stove..... My guess is that you will have to see what others are doing in that area, and what the code may be. I bet there are a lot of chimneys torn out there just from the ice and sheer from the snow-load.

One thing you could do might be to put a ceiling fan in the vaulted part of the ceiling, and go with a smaller stove. I'm thinking that way, you could somewhat evenly heat the living area, and run the smaller stove at a higher temp to avoid the creosote issues.

 

[daffodil_1]

So we should be thinking of venting out the side and then up for snow load? I get the smaller stove=less creosote thing, but I thought for sure that would not be advisable because of draft.

By the way, the stove mentioned in the first post on this thread was a 1940's stove. I thought "40's version" might have been refering to a serial number. Shows what I know! So it is out.

As for code around here, BAH! is all I have to say. The closest towns that have enough people also have much less snow load. So when we ask questions it's always "Oh, but you guys are up there. You have so much more snow so this doesn't apply."

Thanks again
daffodil_1

 

[Webwidow]

My only concern with venting out and up is the frigid temperature factor. The more bends (elbos) one has the poorer the draft, which is no big deal if the chimney is high enough.

However, the more exposed chimney you have to outside extreme cold temperature the poorer the draft, which might hinder your stove enjoyment.

 

[daffodil_1]

Might it be best to top vent a stove (mind you we have 12 ft walls) as far as we can inside the structure then 90 or 45 to the outside soon enough to get past the eave? Or would it be best to back vent to the outside then 90 degree straight up?

Thanks
daffodil_1

 

[elkimmeg]

Sliding snow load, if venting threw the roof and a straight shot up no bends is best, the closer to the peak, the less that snow
can accumulate behind it. Cost, straight runs will cost less also you could use a section or two of single wall pipe before connecting to Class A chimney, again saving you money. The class A tee and elbows are quite expensive

Everbody here will tell you, a chimney within the living space will draft better and preform better, than a tee 90 degree turn and exposed outside chimney.

Another thing to consider it is easier to control a stove running at a moderate level, than trying to opperate a smaller stove at peak preformance. Originally I suggested the mid level 40,000 Btu stove, after learning you climate and moving it into a larger space, I would up the BTU capacity to 50,000 range. If you run a cross a good used VC stove the encore / or defiant would fill the bill.
Please tell us what your nearest dealer stocks. Many here can make recomendations. Ok I a bit particial to VC products. I own 2 working VC stoves. American pride of owning the only cast iron stove still made in America Bethel VT

 

[begreen]

So we should be thinking of venting out the side and then up for snow load? I get the smaller stove=less creosote thing, but I thought for sure that would not be advisable because of draft.

Go straight up. You will get much better draft and less creosote buildup. If not located near the peak of the roof, I would brace the stove pipe to reduce the snow load issue. If solidly braced from the upper part of the roof, it should be able to resist snow load. The braces can be made from 1/2" electrical conduit. Flatten the ends with a hammer so that they can be drilled out to clear a 1/4" lag bolt (roof end of the brace), the other ends get flattened and drilled to attach with a stainless steel bolt and nut to a ring collar around the stovepipe.

 

[Todd]

How much snow do you average per year? When I lived in Northern Michigan we had over 300 inches some years. I use to shovel the roof off 2 or 3 times. That much snow can cause roofs to collaps.

I second what Elk and Begreen said. Go straight up through the roof. Since you live way up north you will be burning softwoods, so look for a stove in the medium to large range. Something with a large enough fire box for an overnight burn. Burning softwoods in a smaller stove will keep you attending to the stove constantly.

 

[elkimmeg]

One other thought,, That is if you have the clearances. one convient feature of having a tee behind the stove makes for eacier mess free cleaning.. At this point I am talking about a single wall tee. All one has to do is open the bottom of the tee attach a plastis bag duct tape or elastics and sweep the entire chimney into the plastic bag, twist it up for a mess free cleaning. Sines most of the entire chimney is in the the heated living space, the tee would not create that much draft friction.. I agree with Todd. You should get a stove with a firebox at least 2 or more cubic feet capacity. Larger for box means, more heat and longer burn times and less re- loading

 

[daffodil_1]

Go straight up. You will get much better draft and less creosote buildup. If not located near the peak of the roof, I would brace the stove pipe to reduce the snow load issue. If[/quote]

I still like your idea best. How close to the roof peak could we vent the stove? I have seen many braced chimneys around here that are now facing out instead of up, so I hesitate to go in that direction.

Thank you
Daffodil

 

[daffodil_1]

How much snow do you average per year? When I lived in Northern Michigan we had over 300 inches some years. I use to shovel the roof off 2 or 3 times. That much snow can cause roofs to collaps.

We don't get any lake effect snow, thats for sure. Our roof is going to be a 12/12 pitch metal roof, so honestly I can't think that we will retain much snow, but I don't know. Usually we retain 2-3 feet throughout the winter.

Thank you
Daffodil