This is why you always insulate liners.

[bholler]

Helping an employee pour a crown on his chimney and found this when we pulled the old crown off. Yes those are the ceiling joists running through the chimney and in direct contact with each of the 12x12 liners. Fun fun fun. There are many more problems that will need addressed by tearing the chimney down below the roof line as well.

 

[bholler]

And yes we had done a full inspection on his chimney when he bought the house. There was no way for us to know what was there

 

[begreen]

When I removed our fireplace and chimney I was stunned at what was buried behind the walls. Wood was in direct contact with the unlined chimney at many points and there were 2 take-offs, sealed up, one with a wood beam across it.

 

[EbS-P]

Wow. Does home owners insurance ever pay out in situations like these.

Edit.. before damage has been done??

 

[bholler]

Wow. Does home owners insurance ever pay out in situations like these.

Edit.. before damage has been done??

No homeowners insurance absolutely does not

 

[nola mike]

No homeowners insurance absolutely does not

If not known, of course they'd pay.

 

[bholler]

If not known, of course they'd pay.

Why? They don't just randomly pay to fix poor craftsmanship. They pay to fix damage

 

[nola mike]

Why? They don't just randomly pay to fix poor craftsmanship. They pay to fix damage

I'm talking about if a fire occurred because of it, not pay to fix the issue...

 

[bholler]

I'm talking about if a fire occurred because of it, not pay to fix the issue...

Oh yes that they absolutely will pay for. I was initially responding to a question about before damage was done

 

[begreen]

I've posted this before. The flue tiles were never encased in brick as they went through the upper floor. This was a new house in the 70s. It took until around 2010 before pyrolysis finally ignited the surrounding combustibles in spite of always heating with wood.

Insurance paid for the repairs and an insulated stainless liner went in.

 

[Marconis]

I've posted this before. The flue tiles were never encased in brick as they went through the upper floor. This was a new house in the 70s. It took until around 2010 before pyrolysis finally ignited the surrounding combustibles in spite of always heating with wood.

Insurance paid for the repairs and an insulated stainless liner went in.

View attachment 300161

Wait, so it was just the tiles acting as the “chimney” with no brickwork around it?

 

[bholler]

Wait, so it was just the tiles acting as the “chimney” with no brickwork around it?

Yes there is brick that is a picture down inside the brick from the now open top

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Wow, even though this thread is titled “this is why you always insulate liners”, it seems like even an insulated liner would be a liability if put into a chimney with wood inside the chimney itself (unbeknownst to the installer of course if it outside of view).
Makes you wonder how many masonry chimneys are similar.
Also, would the installer be on the hook liability-wise if a loss occurred due to this workmanship error? I’d hope not, if there was no way for the issue to be seen. Just curious though.

 

[bholler]

Wow, even though this thread is titled “this is why you always insulate liners”, it seems like even an insulated liner would be a liability if put into a chimney with wood inside the chimney itself (unbeknownst to the installer of course if it outside of view).
Makes you wonder how many masonry chimneys are similar.
Also, would the installer be on the hook liability-wise if a loss occurred due to this workmanship error? I’d hope not, if there was no way for the issue to be seen. Just curious though.

Yes even with an insulated liner it's not right and is still a safety risk. But the risk is much less with insulation.

And yes I absolutely would be liable even if I didn't know

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Yes even with an insulated liner it's not right and is still a safety risk. But the risk is much less with insulation.

And yes I absolutely would be liable even if I didn't know

Man that stinks to be held liable for stuff that is basically unknowable. I would have thought it would go back to the original builder.

 

[bholler]

Man that stinks to be held liable for stuff that is basically unknowable. I would have thought it would go back to the original builder.

If the original builder was known still alive and in business they would go after them as well. But that wouldn't get us off the hook

 

[CTKB]

I am guessing you have seen a lot of things over the years, I am hoping this ranks towards the top of the worst things you have seen. Any clue why they did this? "Dear, when you are remodeling the bathroom can you put in the heated floors? Sure, no problem honey!"

 

[bholler]

I am guessing you have seen a lot of things over the years, I am hoping this ranks towards the top of the worst things you have seen. Any clue why they did this? "Dear, when you are remodeling the bathroom can you put in the heated floors? Sure, no problem honey!"

Not even close to the top of worst things. This is actually fairly common sadly. And it happens just because people are either completely clueless or just don't give a chit

 

[coaly]

I bought a home next to me for a rental. Removed 2 wood stoves before renting. Replacing water damaged Sheetrock and studs around chimneys. Removed wallboard to find they must not have been able to stop the water leak at flashing, so the framing that was against the masonry chimney blocks was tar coated, stuck to the chimney to preserve that wood!

The floor pad looked like double or more cement board with tile. Removed it, to find a green painted ping pong table top on the plywood floor with slate tiles stuck on it. Looked like a nice thick slab. New Haugh’s stove from the late 80’s never fired on it. In the bedroom.

When I bought the property my neighbor said she had to remember to call State Farm to cancel the insurance.

 

[GrumpyDad]

If the original builder was known still alive and in business they would go after them as well. But that wouldn't get us off the hook

There is a construction company that is rather popular in my area, they started out with handyman level work and then worked their way up through doing expansions, then new houses then more commercial buildings. All within about 10 years to date.

The cabin I have now, they were employed to fix after the old guy that owned it let the oil heat run out and the pipes burst and ran for several months. These guys sistered three joists next to ones that were rotted and cracked, and they couldnt get them in all the way, so they just kinda pounded them sideways and let them sit like an angle. There was a pipe and wire in the way for one so they chopped away about 1/2 of the CENTER of the joist to fit around. The hole for the drain pipe and water lines was 12"x12" with no insulation, no blocking, just open to the crawlspace below and all the vermin that may be in there. They damaged a 220v stove wire. They completely missed that the double layer 3/4 ply was delaminating, or that the water intrusion was up to the beam and that the beam had a significant amount of damage as well. There was a 20oz pop bottle being used to push a drain pipe below a water line, and the drain pipe flows uphill for 5' before flowing down into a gray water system.

Oh I should add that they didnt fasten the joists. I sistered every joist, then created a temp double beam system before cutting and replacing the old beam with a new one. When I was jacking up the floor to put joists in place properly, the joists they 'sistered' literally just flopped over. What they did would have taken me one day. And they charged the insurance company over 10k with about $100 of material

^ There are people good at their craft, and there are people that I wouldnt trust to hold a hammer.