thought a fan would do it

[HatCityIAFF]

So i've been burning my insert for a good month now, almost 24/7. The thing throws off great heat, but really just in the general area. I've been burning 4 year season ash (Yes thats how long it took me to get a insert!!) Been getting good overnight burns with it. (come down in the morning and the fan is kicking on/off wit ha good bed of coals). But for some reason I can't seem to get the temp up in the room. the room that the insert sits in is roughly 300sqft, and on warm nights, I think I got it up to 78. Right now, the stove has been cranking away since 7am after a overnight burn, and its 70 degrees in here. (that makes for a 61 temp upstairs) I thought for sure I would be baked out of this room since its rated for 1800sqft and it can't even handle 300! I bought a vornado and placed it at the bottom of the stairs, on low, pointing at the stove, and really haven't noticed a difference at all. The house was built in 1990 and only has two windows down there, not drafty at all, and excellent insulation. What gives? Theres a noticible temperature change one end of the couch to the other, or if I get up and walk by the garage door its actually kinda cold.

 

[clemsonfor]

Is your wood DRY? ALmost sounds like your draft isnt right and not allowing it enough air to burn?

 

[pen]

Do you have a thermometer on this insert anywhere? What sort of temps are you seeing on it? Maybe you just aren't running the stove hard enough?

pen

 

[Fod01]

Do you have a thermometer on this insert anywhere? What sort of temps are you seeing on it? Maybe you just aren't running the stove hard enough?

pen

My thoughts too. This morning (13° outside) after an overnight burn, my insert was mid-150's, blower still on. I reloaded, and turned off the blower until it hit 300 again. That definitely helped, but I'm realistic about the capabilities of my small stove with weather like that. Oil heat kicked on for half an hour.

Gabe

 

[WoodpileOCD]

Do you have a liner connected? If you don't you will be sucking a LOT of room air up the chimney for the neighbors. It creates a constant draft toward the stove but gets sucked up and out. I installed a liner and insulated the smoke chamber and installed a metal block off plate this year (just got rid of my smoke dragon last year) and it is a totally different stove. Before if I put a candle near the edge of the surround it would get PULLED toward the chimney. I have left the surround off of the install this year and with the block off plate the stove acts a little more like a freestanding than an insert because the sides and top are now part of the room space instead of being behind the surround.

So is it lined with a block off plate? If not, I suspect that is your problem. Certainly shouldn't have any problem at least heating the stove room.

 

[savageactor7]

The thing throws off great heat, but really just in the general area.

Well that's what heating with a wood stove is all about. I'd be careful with over cranking that insert unless you're positive that fireplace is up to code. You probably don't want to hear this but if you really like heating with wood you could replace the insert with a stove for more heat.

 

[begreen]

The fan may be more effective at the top of the stairs, pointing down the stairs. How large is the space above this area (up the stairs)?

Re the insert: Where are the temps being read on the stove and what are the maximum temps being seen?

Re the space: What is the construction of this space? ie: Basement, cement walls, stone, brick or wood walls? Insulation?

 

[stejus]

I think it's already been stated..

Could be

Wood is not properly seasoned and you need to keep air open longer and wider during the burn cycle.
Missing blockoff plate and your're loosing heat up the chimney/smokeshelf area.
Basement install? Are the walls insulated or concrete.
Ceiling height? Insulated?

 

[HatCityIAFF]

Thanks for all the reply's guys. The upstairs is a vaulted ceiling (only family room) directly next to the stair case (raised ranch split level). It has a ceiling fan which I have on all the time. roughly 1400 sqft. I can hang paper from the stair ceiling, and see plenty of hot air moving up the stairs, can even feel it if I stand there. Just the basement can't never get above 70ish. The downstairs is wood floor on top of a slab. 8ft ceilings. The walls, are foundation concrete 3 ft up, and then wood frame, sheet rocked/insulated well. Ceiling is insulated. the Ash is lower than 15% with my moisture meter. Throw a load on in the am after a burn, and takes less that 20 second to light. The chimney is in great shape, exterior brick with 12x12 terra cotta lined. Also have 23ft of stainless liner going to the top. For a blockoff plate, I only have Rockwool stuffed in the flue. (well not stuffed because that defeats the purpose) But no block off plate. I've taken the faceplate off to check flue temps, and really nothing too hot back there. I use a Condar stovetop thermometer, but don't really relay on that because if I place in on the front top corner, the temps are like 150 off, and if i place it stovetop, the fan gives it a off reading. I've just been using my IR gun.

Temps.- I have the draft fully open till stove top temp hits 500. Around 25-45 min Then I'll close it down 25%. It'll start to climb to 550 600ish. 15 min later i'll got to 50%, then 15min later i'll leave it at 25% for a burn that'll last around 7 hrs before the fan shuts off around 250ish. The running temp is usually around 450ish. Highest ive seen so far is 700 for about ten minutes. I was thinking i've had too much draft.

 

[Wade A.]

My guesses?

Either the rockwool your using for a block-off is too loose to block air, or...

You've got an uninsulated floor over a cold slab. The warm air is rising up and out, but it is not warming the lower portion of the room.

The first one is definitely the easier one to deal with.

What do you know about what lies between the floor joists and the slab?

As well, turn on the light in your garage and the one in the interior off. Look around the edges and bottom of the door. See any light?

 

[begreen]

Sounds like all is running well, though the stove is actually heating 1400 sq ft + the additional cubic footage added by the cathedral ceiling + any side rooms off of these rooms. What is the total sq ftg of the house?

I'd take the temperature near the peak of the cathedral ceiling. That could be where the heat is, even with the ceiling fan running.

PS: I'm curious, which direction is the fan blowing, up (reversed) or down? Just for yucks, try reversing its direction and turn off the Vornado.

 

[stejus]

I can hang paper from the stair ceiling, and see plenty of hot air moving up the stairs, can even feel it if I stand there. Just the basement can't never get above 70ish.

Try this as a test. Create some sort of block for the doorway that leads upstairs to prevent the heat from rising up the stairs. Hang a heavy quilt or blanket to stop the heat from going up the stairs. Run the stove and take some room temps. I would imagine the temps should rise in the stove room seeing it's not rising upstairs. This will confirm where your heat is going.

 

[Wade A.]

Also, you say: "The walls, are foundation concrete 3 ft up, and then wood frame, sheet rocked/insulated well."

Do you mean to say that the foundation concrete is rocked over, or exposed up to 3'? If the foundation is exposed, I can tell you that a good deal of your btu's are being sucked out right there. Trying to heat the planet is a lonely and weary job!

 

[JustWood]

The fan may be more effective at the top of the stairs, pointing down the stairs. How large is the space above this area (up the stairs)?

Re the insert: Where are the temps being read on the stove and what are the maximum temps being seen?

Re the space: What is the construction of this space? ie: Basement, cement walls, stone, brick or wood walls? Insulation?

I tried several different fan locations and positions till I found what worked best. Cheapest and simplest option to try.

 

[HatCityIAFF]

thanks gang. I made sure the rockwool is up there good. So i'm not thinking that might be it. Beneith the wood floor? I think its just a moisture barrier, then the concrete slab. No rafters. that does stay pretty cold come to think of it....Zero air coming in from garage also. I've tried reverse on the fan, and that was actually cooling the upstairs according to the hallway thermostat. Total sq ft is 1697.

See if you can picture this for the foundation. It goes up 3 ft, then there is a 8 inch ledge that goes out, then windows. The windows are at ground level. That 3 ft of foundation is framed out with 2x4s, insulated, and rocked. the rest of the 7 ft up to the ceiling is wood frame, insulated. I'll see if I can attach a few pics of it to help you understand.

And that is a AWESOME idea to close off the downstairs somehow. I will give that a shot next day off.

 

[begreen]

A sheet of plastic thumbtacked in place should be enough for a temporary stairwell blocker.

 

[Loco Gringo]

That last image is where the heat is going. Heat rises, period. My mom has a big pretty toungue and groove interior with 20 ft ceilings but has a $400 a month power bill all winter. I cant make them understand that all of the heat is up there. Seal that off for a day and lets see what happens. Sounds like its performoing well but 1697 sq ft is al lot of area, esp when so much of it is positioned well above where you are sitting.

 

[HatCityIAFF]

Thanks. I will keep you all posted

 

[Wade A.]

Those high ceilings are a btu killer, for sure. My living area has a bumped up tray ceiling that goes up to about 12'. Wonderful in Summer, but a real chore to heat the room down to the floor. I'd say the combination of a cold downstairs floor and the vaulted ceiling are your biggest things working against you.

BTW, never hurts to confirm: You DID reverse the direction on your celing fan for winter, correct?

Although blocking off the downstairs is a nice project on a slow afternoon, what will it tell you that you don't already know? I mean, of course cutting the heated space in half and blocking the escape path of the heat will give you a much warmer room. Would you expect otherwise? And once you know that, what then? Is your objective to heat the downstairs only, really well, or share the heat between the two levels?

 

[madison]

Here is an easy check, sit on the stairs leading down to the family room, if you feel a draft of air tumbling down the stairs, your stove heat is rising and being replaced.

And if you have and air handler for A/C/heat pump etc in the attic, you loose a ton of heat thru those ducts, even with the vents closed. And will get air entrainment as well from your cold attic.

 

[madison]

do you have a pull down attic ceiling stairs? if not insulated then that's a good bet of where your heat is escaping.
They make insulated styrofoam domes to protect heat escape threw that opening also your heat ducts are also a huge heat loss too especially ceiling ones
?

+1

 

[firefighterjake]

I'm thinking everyone is on the right track . . . heat is rising upstairs.

I sometimes think the old New Englanders were pretty smart folks in some ways (either accidentally or on purpose) -- low ceilings, rooms that could be shut off from each other to trap heat in the living spaces most often used . . . you don't see too many old homes with lofts and cathedral ceilings unless they've been renovated that way. Of course you also don't see too many old homes well insulated so maybe they weren't always using the best practices.