The time has come for me to upgrade my stove. I currently have a 1993 jotul firelight 12, and the only problem I have is the rear damper door frame is warped and it’s no longer available. Plus, the catalyst chamber should probably be replaced and I don’t see the point of sinking money into this stove when it won’t operate as it should with the damaged damper frame. I’m basically down to two choices, a jotul f500 Oslo, or a VC defiant. I like the VC for the top load feature and it looks pretty similar to the jotul I currently have. Not sure if anybody has anything good to say about the VC stoves, or any experience with the new ones. I’d like to get as much information as possible before spending the roughly 4,500$ on a new stove only to find myself wishing I stuck with jotul.
Time for an upgrade
- Thread starter Tpaull
- Start date
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Honestly I wouldn't pick either of them at all. But if forced to choose one of them I guess it would be the VC.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
VC = long history of poor quality, poor design, and horrendous customer service. They're under new ownership, so hopes are that's all behind them, but one check of the ever-present VC threads on this forum is still enough to keep me from considering them.
Jotul = Quite the opposite, they have a long history of solid high quality stoves, with your Firelight 12 being maybe the only lemon in the bunch. But the new F500 has caused many a thread here, with all of it's new troubles. If you want to stick with Jotul, check out F45.
If I were shopping a new non-cat today, I'd be looking first at Pacific Energy. If you want to try a cat stove that actually works, check out Blaze King or Woodstock.
There's a light at the end of your tunnel, but if you've only ever burned those F12's, you don't know it yet. I owned three Firelight 12's, and stood by them too long. Now, my only regret is I didn't get rid of them sooner!
Jotul = Quite the opposite, they have a long history of solid high quality stoves, with your Firelight 12 being maybe the only lemon in the bunch. But the new F500 has caused many a thread here, with all of it's new troubles. If you want to stick with Jotul, check out F45.
If I were shopping a new non-cat today, I'd be looking first at Pacific Energy. If you want to try a cat stove that actually works, check out Blaze King or Woodstock.
There's a light at the end of your tunnel, but if you've only ever burned those F12's, you don't know it yet. I owned three Firelight 12's, and stood by them too long. Now, my only regret is I didn't get rid of them sooner!
Straight up from the back of the stove about 3 feet, then a 90* elbow into about a 2 foot section, then out to about a 25 foot masonary chimney
Ashful
Minister of Fire
@Tpaull, what can you tell us about the space you're heating, and your burn habits (or desired)? Might help members recommend some top contenders for you to consider.
There are stoves that can run 30 - 40 hours on a single load, or stoves with massive output power needed to quickly heat a cold space. There's stoves that are nearly all radiant (like your Firelight 12) or more convective. There's top loaders, front loaders, side loaders... you name it. Fireboxes of 1.5 cubic feet up to more than 4 cubic feet, and rated for a wide range of spaces.
There are stoves that can run 30 - 40 hours on a single load, or stoves with massive output power needed to quickly heat a cold space. There's stoves that are nearly all radiant (like your Firelight 12) or more convective. There's top loaders, front loaders, side loaders... you name it. Fireboxes of 1.5 cubic feet up to more than 4 cubic feet, and rated for a wide range of spaces.
It’s on the bottom level of a split level house, has to heat about 2300 square feet. I don’t have room for a side load door that’s on the left hand side of the stove (if you’re looking at the front of the stove). It runs basically non stop from October to April as my main heat source. Burning only hard wood, mostly oak and maple. I’ve got an older jotul 3 as almost an insert in the fireplace in the living room. Right now, the firelight gets loaded 2-3 times a day. I like to top load and an ash pan is a miat have for me.
I swore both of these features were a must for me, based on having a VC stove long ago. They definitely are not necessary and add complications in assembly, maintenance, and operation. After 14 seasons running without them I have to say I don't miss them at all. Our stove has a deep belly and runs best with a bed of ash under the coals, so the ashpan is better used as a bun warmer.
tabner
Feeling the Heat
Or any stove at all. A chimney without a liner of some sort should not be used at all.
If it is clay lined the size and condition of that liner will determine functionality
Exactly what @begreen said. I had the top loader, I thought I would miss it. I do not miss it at all, actually prefer the front load door. I can fit more odd splits than ever before. Ash pan, I loved it on my old VC. I got it on my BK stove…..i have not used it once yet! Shoveling it out is quick and easy. Just my take😉
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Top load is great on a stove that must be loaded E/W, like the Firelight 12. It's the only way to really get the thing full without logs rolling out.
But on any modern stove that loads N/S, then the top load door becomes much less desirable, even a hinderance. Since you mention you're using it for heat and not just ambiance, I'd be looking only at stoves that load north/south for best loading efficiency.
And to expand on what bholler already said, modern stoves are very efficient, which means very little heat going up the flue. This usually dictates a stainless liner slid down thru your clay tile 11x7, to prevent draft stall or condensation due to a cold flue. The bonus is that with a more efficient stove, you could be burning a lot less wood for the same heat.
But on any modern stove that loads N/S, then the top load door becomes much less desirable, even a hinderance. Since you mention you're using it for heat and not just ambiance, I'd be looking only at stoves that load north/south for best loading efficiency.
And to expand on what bholler already said, modern stoves are very efficient, which means very little heat going up the flue. This usually dictates a stainless liner slid down thru your clay tile 11x7, to prevent draft stall or condensation due to a cold flue. The bonus is that with a more efficient stove, you could be burning a lot less wood for the same heat.
I’ve been looking at getting a stainless liner installed. It’s going to happen at some point in the future, just not 100% sure when. I would imagine creosote build up will be much less if I was to get it sleeved. I’m looking for a good looking cast stove that produces decent amounts of heat
Ashful
Minister of Fire
I was saying the same thing, a few years back when replacing my Jotul Firelight 12's. They're beautiful stoves with some really nice craftsmanship, but the reality is that the cemented cast construction method is prone to leaks opening up in the cemented joints after many years of continuous use as a heater.
I started to become attracted to the stoves constructed as a welded steel box, and dressed up with cast iron panels hung on the outside. They look just like a cast stove, but are infinitely more durable for those of us using them as full-time heaters. Also, the cast over steel model allows for the creation of a convective jacket between the two, which offers a lot of advantages.
Some of the stoves we've recommended here (Blaze King Ashford 30, Pacific Energy Alderlea T5) use this construction. I thought some of the newer Jotuls (F45//55) were also cast-clad steel, although the section view shown of the F55 in the manual doesn't depict this, and I've honestly not kept track of these models.
If sticking with traditional cemented cast iron, you already know the routine. They can work very well, but many here find they require a tear down and rebuild with new cement in the joints every ten years, or thereabouts for those using them as full-time heaters. If you don't do this, they can still work, but their burn times suffer due to the leakage, and damage can occur if continued to operate long-term with a leaky joint.
I started to become attracted to the stoves constructed as a welded steel box, and dressed up with cast iron panels hung on the outside. They look just like a cast stove, but are infinitely more durable for those of us using them as full-time heaters. Also, the cast over steel model allows for the creation of a convective jacket between the two, which offers a lot of advantages.
Some of the stoves we've recommended here (Blaze King Ashford 30, Pacific Energy Alderlea T5) use this construction. I thought some of the newer Jotuls (F45//55) were also cast-clad steel, although the section view shown of the F55 in the manual doesn't depict this, and I've honestly not kept track of these models.
If sticking with traditional cemented cast iron, you already know the routine. They can work very well, but many here find they require a tear down and rebuild with new cement in the joints every ten years, or thereabouts for those using them as full-time heaters. If you don't do this, they can still work, but their burn times suffer due to the leakage, and damage can occur if continued to operate long-term with a leaky joint.
I certainly appreciate the feed back and respect your opinion. I read alot of your older threads when rebuilding my firelight and through the process of getting used to using it. But, I’m the end, the wife has the final say, and all I can really do is point her in the direction I prefer 😂
There is nothing wrong with actual cast stoves by their nature. But the problem is there aren't many options available and even fewer ones without issues
That’s pretty much what I was trying to figure out. If they perform as good as or better than the firelight I have now, I will be pleased.
Yes, a 1990's car will be better than the 1960's one had before, and thus you may like it. But why not get a 2010-2020's car?
See the recommendations by begreen.
See the recommendations by begreen.
I think you will learn very quickly that your firelight is not performing well at all when you replace it with a different stove. They really were a black eye for jotul
Vehicles aren’t a good comparison for me….my newest vehicle is a 1998 Silverado 😂. I like the classics 🤷🏼♂️
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