To Ovalize or Not

[cgeiger]

Ok. So in my last posts I was installing a hearth extension and a new F500 Oslo to replace my old VC Resolute (pre-epa). Well, I've finished the hearth extension (not bad for a first try) and had the sweep out to inspect my chimney. To say he was impressed was an understatement. Our chimney is 18 years old, exterior masonry with a 13x13 flue. I burned our VC 24x7 last year and all we removed was about a gallon of crud (much of which was birds nests, leaves, etc. - I had him install a cap for me while he was up there). As we discussed my previous plans to direct connect (and yes, he too was very impressed with the vortex-like draft my chimney produces) he encouraged me to do a full line as others have done here. He pointed me to full kits on Ebay which were much cheaper than what I was quoted from local hearth dealer. So I'm MUCH more comfortable biting the bullet now and doing it.

The only part we disagreed on - was whether to ovalize or not. I have a 6' piece of SS flex (Hart's Hearth) that I used with the VC. I ovalized about 4' to fit through the damper and would like to not throw it away. Total height T to cap is 23' and change so using the 6' would save me a bit plus the major effort it took me to get the pipe ovalized Which of the three choices would you guys recommend:

1. Buy 20' of M-Flex or Flex King and a collar to join with my existing ovalized section.
2. Buy 25' of above and ovalize the lower portion, rerounding to mate with the T
3. Buy 25' of above and cut out the damper to allow a straight shot

I'm assuming that a poly brush (versus metal) would make it "easier" to get through the ovalized section.

Oh and, anybody in northern VA that might want to give a fellow burner a hand with the install? I would be more than willing to spring for beer and pizza.

 

[Todd]

I vote for #3. It will be much easier cleaning and would be one solid piece.

 

[Hogwildz]

I second option 3, thats what I did here.

 

[Burd]

I like #3 If you think that the poly brush is going through that oval section your wrong. I just bought one and It sitting on my desk next to the wire brush and there both stiff . Plus Im no expert but that my put a damper on the performace or draft for the stove or insert your in stalling.
You can send the pizza and beer Pa :lol:

 

[cgeiger]

Thanks, Burd, for the advice on the brushes - good to know.

 

[BrotherBart]

Definitely cut the damper frame and go with the round. It is a non-event difference in the liner price. And if you ever want to change it back to a fireplace it is around a $120 to get a damper that goes on top of the flue tiles up top with a chain down to open and close it. And it works better than the one you have.

 

[fossil]

...And if you ever want to change it back to a fireplace it is around a $120 to get a damper that goes on top of the flue tiles up top with a chain down to open and close it. And it works better than the one you have.

Had a couple of those on my fireplace flues in VA. Stainless cables, bracket screwed to the side of the firebox, self-extending extruded spring "hat" clamped up top, positive seal from top when closed. Slicker 'n snot for a traditional open masonry fireplace...kept the flues clean and warm, and eliminated heat loss up the chimneys when not burning. Rick

 

[cgeiger]

Though I'd never want to return it to a fireplace, it was the one thing that worried me most about cuttin' the damper. After what you guys have told me, it's settled. Now I just need to find an angle grinder and a sawzall...

 

[theheatelement]

Why not just get a kit that has the last 5 feet of liner ovalized and then get an oval to round connector... that's what alot of my company sells to get around that problem..

 

[BrotherBart]

Why not just get a kit that has the last 5 feet of liner ovalized and then get an oval to round connector... that's what alot of my company sells to get around that problem..

Because:

1.) That five feet of ovalized and adapter costs more.
2.) It is harder to clean.
3.) It introduces an extra connection seam into the liner system.
4.) The only reason for doing it is to later be able to convert back to a fireplace and the chimney top damper is cheaper than the ovalized section in the first place.

Number four not relevant in the instant case because he already has the oval piece but would still need an adapter.

 

[Todd]

How would someone clean the oval section? Special brush?

 

[LeonMSPT]

Iron damper is no picnic to cut with anything, except maybe a cutting torch and who wants to lay on their back looking up at pieces of iron they're cutting with a torch.

Last two I did responded really well to a two foot long pipe wrench... just tighten it down on an edge you can get ahold of, and give it a good pull. You'll tear a chunk right out of it... eat enough away and the rest of the frame will dislodge from the brick and damper is gone... sawzall will kill you in there. Angle grinder might work better than sawzall, but the pipe wrench deal worked best for me.

 

[BrotherBart]

A plain old hacksaw works surprisingly well on damper frames without any of the drama of a sawzall bouncing around or a torch lighting your hair on fire. Works fast too.

 

[cgeiger]

Thaniks, Brother Bart. I have a hacksaw and will give it a try - though it's a $5 Home Depot model that I really bought to help with the deer. Is there a particular quality/brand/blade type you'd recommend for the job? I'd rather do it right once then break and buy several different blades before I find the right one

 

[BrotherBart]

Just pick up a package of'em and if you break a couple they are cheap. Cast is really pretty soft stuff to saw through in something like a damper frame.

 

[cgeiger]

Sounds good - I'll give it a whirl! Thanks!

 

[LeonMSPT]

Ovalized pipe will come through the offset, if there is one, into the fireplace easier than round. Some fireplaces don't have much of an offset, and others have a big one. May not be an issue for everybody.

 

[cgeiger]

As a case in point, mine has very little offset at all, plus the fact that the liner is flex makes it easy for it to make the bend. As measured, I only need an extra inch and a quarter to allow a fully rounded 6" pipe to come straight through. That being said, I've ready plenty of posts from others who have a huge offset and sometimes need a 30 degree elbow or some such connector to correct for the angle their pipe comes in at.

 

[cgeiger]

Thought I'd update the thread with what I wound up doing.

Took the advice from several and cut the damper. Wound up using a couple of hacksaw blades and got a good bit out but it was taking forever. This would have been muuuch easier if I didn't already have the stove on the hearth. It meant I was fairly limited in how I could get leverage inside the hearth.

Having already made several up/down cuts into the damper frame and cutting out a few notches so I could make a lateral cut with the hacksaw I gave up. There was just no way I could get the amount of leverage I needed to make the 6" cut and not have it take several hours of sawing/resting/sawing/resting. Maybe I just wasn't putting enough elbow grease into it... So I decided to borrow a sawzall (literally, an old Milwaukee 4-amp all metal model - vintage!) and started making short work of it. In the end, I had to hire a carpenter/handyman to give me a second set of hands and get up on the roof but it was money well spent (well less than 100$). Compared to the $2000+ the local sweep offered I made out like a bandit.

In terms of cutting materials - I went through 2 hacksaw blades (I believe I used the 18T) and 3 Sawzall blades. Not sure what a 10amp reciprocating saw would have done versus the 4 amp but perhaps the 4 amp saved me from the maniacal gyrations I expected to get when I switched it on. Aside from the distinct sensation of holding up a brick while trying to saw it was otherwise fairly smooth and cut very well. My hats off to Milwaukee for a quality product that still cuts as well today as when it was manufactured.

Owing to a 13x13 flue, the 6" MagnaFlex went in like a charm down through the block off plate (I took pictures - will post later) and into the T. Then a short connector right into the Oslo which sits another 2 inches off the lip of the hearth. I had the same problem with the T that I've seen in another thread but when I returned the T to stove and T to liner angles to 90 degrees everything tightened back up. Inspection passed without a hitch.

So far, my home airspace is well sealed from the chimney, the stove drafts fine (actually a little less with the full reline - go figure) and we are warm and toasty. Thanks to all for your help.

 

[BrotherBart]

Glad ya got'er done. Had I realized the stove was going to be in the way I would have suggested dynamite instead of the hacksaw. :lol: The hacksaw is a breeze but only with lots of room to work it.

Enjoy that stove and hit us with some pics!

 

[TreePapa]

Thought I'd update the thread with what I wound up doing.

So I decided to borrow a sawzall (literally, an old Milwaukee 4-amp all metal model - vintage!) and started making short work of it. In the end, I had to hire a carpenter/handyman to give me a second set of hands and get up on the roof but it was money well spent (well less than 100$). Compared to the $2000+ the local sweep offered I made out like a bandit.

In terms of cutting materials - I went through 2 hacksaw blades (I believe I used the 18T) and 3 Sawzall blades. Not sure what a 10amp reciprocating saw would have done versus the 4 amp but perhaps the 4 amp saved me from the maniacal gyrations I expected to get when I switched it on. Aside from the distinct sensation of holding up a brick while trying to saw it was otherwise fairly smooth and cut very well. My hats off to Milwaukee for a quality product that still cuts as well today as when it was manufactured.

I've got one of those old 4-amp all metal Milwaukee sawzalls. Inherieted it from my BIL; actually I found it while cleaning out his storage after he passed. He had actually had it rebuilt (new brushes, new cord, new boots). Works like a champ -- not as fast as a newer, larger saw, but gutsy. Of course for quick cuts or when away from power, I use my cordless (Ryobi) but there just something about the feel of a solid old tool and the classic Milwaukee Sawzalls were one of the best.

Peace,
- Sequoia

 

[theheatelement]

oh good, you used one of our products, how did everything work out, please keep me updated as I enjoy hearing from satisfied customers. Also if their is anything you would recommend that might help me, please let me know in a PM.

Best regards,

Thought I'd update the thread with what I wound up doing.

Took the advice from several and cut the damper. Wound up using a couple of hacksaw blades and got a good bit out but it was taking forever. This would have been muuuch easier if I didn't already have the stove on the hearth. It meant I was fairly limited in how I could get leverage inside the hearth.

Having already made several up/down cuts into the damper frame and cutting out a few notches so I could make a lateral cut with the hacksaw I gave up. There was just no way I could get the amount of leverage I needed to make the 6" cut and not have it take several hours of sawing/resting/sawing/resting. Maybe I just wasn't putting enough elbow grease into it... So I decided to borrow a sawzall (literally, an old Milwaukee 4-amp all metal model - vintage!) and started making short work of it. In the end, I had to hire a carpenter/handyman to give me a second set of hands and get up on the roof but it was money well spent (well less than 100$). Compared to the $2000+ the local sweep offered I made out like a bandit.

In terms of cutting materials - I went through 2 hacksaw blades (I believe I used the 18T) and 3 Sawzall blades. Not sure what a 10amp reciprocating saw would have done versus the 4 amp but perhaps the 4 amp saved me from the maniacal gyrations I expected to get when I switched it on. Aside from the distinct sensation of holding up a brick while trying to saw it was otherwise fairly smooth and cut very well. My hats off to Milwaukee for a quality product that still cuts as well today as when it was manufactured.

Owing to a 13x13 flue, the 6" MagnaFlex went in like a charm down through the block off plate (I took pictures - will post later) and into the T. Then a short connector right into the Oslo which sits another 2 inches off the lip of the hearth. I had the same problem with the T that I've seen in another thread but when I returned the T to stove and T to liner angles to 90 degrees everything tightened back up. Inspection passed without a hitch.

So far, my home airspace is well sealed from the chimney, the stove drafts fine (actually a little less with the full reline - go figure) and we are warm and toasty. Thanks to all for your help.

 

[cgeiger]

Glad ya got'er done. Had I realized the stove was going to be in the way I would have suggested dynamite instead of the hacksaw. :lol: The hacksaw is a breeze but only with lots of room to work it.

Enjoy that stove and hit us with some pics!

lol - The hacksaw really did cut the fastest but it needed leverage. In the end I was really only able to cut north/south with enough room for my arm. The gent I hired to give me a hand actually managed to squeeze into the firebox behind the stove (I, um, won't fit) and really got the sawzall to zip through the rest of it. As for pics, I keep forgetting after I get home. I'll be sure to get them posted though. I got good closeups of the blockoff plate, the hearth and stove as well as the extension.

Thanks to all for the feedback.

 

[Rudyjr]

I applaud the persistance with the hack saw and sawzall. I used an angle grinder with a 4 inch cut off wheel, cut through cast like butter.