to ovalize or remove clay tiles

[rick clifford]

It turns out I have 8 x 13 terra cotta tiles and in my 20 foot chimney. I need a 6 inch insulated liner and have read so many different posts here about this that I am convinced it just wont fit as is. Question is which is the best, safest and functional method to use. Remove the tiles or purchase ovalized liner which is way more expensive as seen on manufacturers websites. All advice is greatly appreciated. Lastly, If I remove the tile, can the fireplace be used as a fireplace again in the future should the insert be removed and what is needed to do to get that done. Thanks

 

[plasticmotif]

A 6" round liner is only 6.25" outer diameter. Why don't you think it will fit?

 

[BigFir]

Is it inside or outside measurements. I don't see the issue either? I know the insulation is around 1/2" think, but I think it would still fit. My 7x11" ID will probably be a different story.......

 

[bholler]

A 6" round liner is only 6.25" outer diameter. Why don't you think it will fit?

Because you need insulation which adds 1.25" to 1.5" it will not fit. Even a bare liner can be hard to fit if there are any offset tile joints.

It turns out I have 8 x 13 terra cotta tiles and in my 20 foot chimney. I need a 6 inch insulated liner and have read so many different posts here about this that I am convinced it just wont fit as is. Question is which is the best, safest and functional method to use. Remove the tiles or purchase ovalized liner which is way more expensive as seen on manufacturers websites. All advice is greatly appreciated. Lastly, If I remove the tile, can the fireplace be used as a fireplace again in the future should the insert be removed and what is needed to do to get that done. Thanks

For a fireplace I would probably ovalize unless the clay tiles are already cracked or have bad joints. If the tiles are in good use able shape I would not remove them from a fireplace because if you ever wanted to go back to a fireplace you would need to install a new liner sized correctly for your fireplace opening.

 

[BigFir]

^^^^ listen to this guy......

 

[plasticmotif]

Wouldn't an adequately sized oval liner be equally hard to install?

Is the fireplace on an exterior wall?

 

[bholler]

Wouldn't an adequately sized oval liner be equally hard to install?

no it wont be

 

[redyute]

Because you need insulation which adds 1.25" to 1.5" it will not fit. Even a bare liner can be hard to fit if there are any offset tile joints.

I got ss insulated liner and the insulation is only about 1/2" thick, I think you need to do more research cause I cant see how it wont fit, will be tight but it should fit

 

[redyute]

If you gonna wrap the liner yourself I can see how it would increase the outer diameter by over an inch but if you get insulated like the one I got its only 1/2 more

 

[bholler]

No I dont need to do more research. I am sorry to be so blunt but I install about 80 liners a year and I am telling you an insulated 6" liner will not fit in a rectangle clay liner that size. Many times a bare 6" liner wont even fit.

 

[redyute]

No I dont need to do more research. I am sorry to be so blunt but I install about 80 liners a year and I am telling you an insulated 6" liner will not fit in a rectangle clay liner that size. Many times a bare 6" liner wont even fit.

hmmm ok

 

[bholler]

If you gonna wrap the liner yourself I can see how it would increase the outer diameter by over an inch but if you get insulated like the one I got its only 1/2 more

yes 1/2" more on each side for the insulation plus another 1/8" for the outer liner. so 1.25" to 1.5" like I said

 

[rick clifford]

Thanks for all the quick replies. I live in central jersey (Red Bank area). My chimney is an exterior chimney on the north wall of a small cape cod. 8 x 12 or 13 are outside dimensions of the tile and all I hear and read is that the half inch wrapped blankets will add about 1.25 to 1.5 inches to the diameter. I have looked at pre insulated but the spec sheets all indicate they are too big also. (Copperfield has pre insulated now quite cheap but not UL approved yet) (pending) AND they wont sell to the homeowner. The installers don't want to use the liners at all saying they are not needed and are over kill. And THEN they say what a bear it is to get them down but they will make it work. I get nervous as it may get down but in what condition will the liner and insulation be in???? Its a straight shot down but just 1 more potential issue is 2 pieces of rebar about 8 inches apart (a guess) just above the smoke chamber. I suspect for support. So here I am back possibly braking the tiles or ovalize. Tomorrow I will get up to get exact I.D. and see if I can get an accurate measurement between the rebar. Thanks all for your replies. I just want it done and done right for safety

 

[bholler]

Thanks for all the quick replies. I live in central jersey (Red Bank area). My chimney is an exterior chimney on the north wall of a small cape cod. 8 x 12 or 13 are outside dimensions of the tile and all I hear and read is that the half inch wrapped blankets will add about 1.25 to 1.5 inches to the diameter. I have looked at pre insulated but the spec sheets all indicate they are too big also. (Copperfield has pre insulated now quite cheap but not UL approved yet) (pending) AND they wont sell to the homeowner. The installers don't want to use the liners at all saying they are not needed and are over kill. And THEN they say what a bear it is to get them down but they will make it work. I get nervous as it may get down but in what condition will the liner and insulation be in???? Its a straight shot down but just 1 more potential issue is 2 pieces of rebar about 8 inches apart (a guess) just above the smoke chamber. I suspect for support. So here I am back possibly braking the tiles or ovalize. Tomorrow I will get up to get exact I.D. and see if I can get an accurate measurement between the rebar. Thanks all for your replies. I just want it done and done right for safety

If it was me I would get up there and cut that re-bar out so it does not cause problems. To me the question of ovalize or break out comes down to the condition of your current tiles. If they are already damaged I would take them out if not I would ovalize. And if your installer says there is no need for insulation I would find a different installer.

 

[redyute]

yes 1/2" more on each side for the insulation plus another 1/8" for the outer liner. so 1.25" to 1.5" like I said

I might be an idiot but I don't get how you mean 1/2" on each side, I'm going to the garage and look at this again

 

[bholler]

I might be an idiot but I don't get how you mean 1/2" on each side, I'm going to the garage and look at this again

The insulation needs to be 1/2" thick to meet the insulation requirements for a wood stove liner. If it is thinner it will not give you the zero clearance rating to the outside of the masonry structure. And it will not give you nearly the performance gains of the required 1/2"

 

[bholler]

I might be an idiot but I don't get how you mean 1/2" on each side, I'm going to the garage and look at this again

what brand pipe is it?

 

[redyute]

I'm not trying to argue with nobody cause clearly I've only installed 1 liner but I'm just showing the one I got and the insulation adds an inch. I held the tape too high

 

[bholler]

here is a sizing guid for forever flex preinsulated.
(broken link removed)

Did you order your liner with 1/2" or 1/4" insulation? Because that sure seems like 1/4"

 

[redyute]

here is a sizing guid for forever flex preinsulated.
(broken link removed)

Did you order your liner with 1/2" or 1/4" insulation? Because that sure seems like 1/4"

1/2 " insulation I don't need the guide, seeing is believing

 

[bholler]

1/2 " insulation I don't need the guide, seeing is believing

then why is your insulation not 1/2"?

 

[rick clifford]

Redyute, My O.D. clay tile is 8 inches which make the interior less than 7 and your picture sure looks like your liner is just shy of 9!! That wont fit unless I am missing something.. And Bholler, I have read your responses often and I agree with your logic but just how do I get to that rebar as its pretty far up the flue and cant be reached by hand. I am 6 foot 3 with long arms but no way can I reach it to cut.

 

[redyute]

Redyute, My O.D. clay tile is 8 inches which make the interior less than 7 and your picture sure looks like your liner is just shy of 9!! That wont fit unless I am missing something.. And Bholler, I have read your responses often and I agree with your logic but just how do I get to that rebar as its pretty far up the flue and cant be reached by hand. I am 6 foot 3 with long arms but no way can I reach it to cut.

its an 8" liner I'm not using a 6" lol. I don't know i was just sharing from my experience with the liner cause i thought an extra 1.25 - 1.5" for insulation was off that's all

 

[rick clifford]

As general George Patton once said, Many Tanks. I do like the idea of pre insulated as I think it would be easier to run down my chimney with less chance of getting caught up but Hey, I never installed one but I am leaning to doing it myself and may go that route. Seems pretty comparable price wise. Is it harder to handle and make that bend to get it down the chimney??

 

[bholler]

its an 8" liner

Yes I understand that but 8" forever flex is 8.25" outside. then you have 1/2" insulation so you are at 9.25 plus the thickness of the outer liner. You are showing an outside measurement of about 9" so Idont see how you could have 1/2" insulation there. I am not trying to criticize you but I work with this stuff every day and I dont want someone to be misled with inaccurate info.

Is it harder to handle and make that bend to get it down the chimney??

It is a little less flexible than regular wrapped but it goes in easier.