Top Ten things your woodstove dealer/installer may not what you to know..
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Isnt the cost associated with any project either the #1 or #2 consideration every time?
Were there additional costs to the original quote?
Were there additional costs to the original quote?
On the original thread I said the instal was 750, and materials 750. thread is here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/10780/
However the 750 for materials is only an estimate based on my measurements, when the installer comes that may increase/decrease. The point I was trying to make in substance is, that as a new "wood-burner" I had no idea that the materials venting etc was so expensive.
However the 750 for materials is only an estimate based on my measurements, when the installer comes that may increase/decrease. The point I was trying to make in substance is, that as a new "wood-burner" I had no idea that the materials venting etc was so expensive.
I feel your pain. It always amazes me how much 'extra' you have to add in to the already large initial cost of the equip. Like the vent kit and OAK for a pellet stove.
Imagine installing a new oil fired boiler and then seeing the costs for all the copper and the install??!!
Imagine installing a new oil fired boiler and then seeing the costs for all the copper and the install??!!
Welcome aboard Shaun. My suggestion before any valid advice is given to to take a few steps backwards and explain your venting setup.
your goals of heating you hope to accomplish. I saw your other cost post and wonder if alternative stoves would be cheaper and accomplish the task at hand.
Another point we do not know what is involved to make your installation current chimney usage Class A required? Lets sort out the details before you plunk down over $4k
Another puzzling point is finding dry seasoned wood at this time of the year. To me, It sounds like a rush decision, without fully thinking the process threw?
there are many good dealers here, In which a post like yours will not added to their willingness to lend helpfully advice. Pretty easy to heap it on without thinking or factor in, not all dealers are out there to screw the consumer.
your goals of heating you hope to accomplish. I saw your other cost post and wonder if alternative stoves would be cheaper and accomplish the task at hand.
Another point we do not know what is involved to make your installation current chimney usage Class A required? Lets sort out the details before you plunk down over $4k
Another puzzling point is finding dry seasoned wood at this time of the year. To me, It sounds like a rush decision, without fully thinking the process threw?
there are many good dealers here, In which a post like yours will not added to their willingness to lend helpfully advice. Pretty easy to heap it on without thinking or factor in, not all dealers are out there to screw the consumer.
wahoowad said:
My thought process eggsactly!
I actually tried getting my woodstove from a local dealer. He was much to busy reading Swank to be bothered. So I went to the net. I purchased my woodstove, tore out my ceiling and made a cathedral, retrofitted all the stove pipes and things couldn't be sweeter. Of course I do everything on my own. The last thing I want is someone overcharging me, not giving me the service I want or need.
Somewhere on this list has to be:
Dealer telling you that his liner is the only one that is reasonable, and that a home owner couldn't possibly install a liner.
Dealer telling you that a VC aspen is only a toy and that you really don't want it because you really should buy the much more expensive Morso (that has a lower BTU Rating, and dinky firebox) instead.
Dealer telling you that his pellets are the only ones worth anything... at 315/ton. (he didn't want to tell me that he paid too much for them LOL)
Dealer telling you you need a $5000 new fireplace when an $1500 insert will work.
Dealer telling you that his liner is the only one that is reasonable, and that a home owner couldn't possibly install a liner.
Dealer telling you that a VC aspen is only a toy and that you really don't want it because you really should buy the much more expensive Morso (that has a lower BTU Rating, and dinky firebox) instead.
Dealer telling you that his pellets are the only ones worth anything... at 315/ton. (he didn't want to tell me that he paid too much for them LOL)
Dealer telling you you need a $5000 new fireplace when an $1500 insert will work.
Doesn't want you to know that he's trying to tell you exactly what he thinks you want to hear.
"No smoke with this unit."
"Hardly burns any wood at all."
"No creosote with these babies."
"Never had a problem with this model."
"Hooks right up to your existing chimney."
"Will burn green wood."
"Turbo-Flame Technology!"
"No smoke with this unit."
"Hardly burns any wood at all."
"No creosote with these babies."
"Never had a problem with this model."
"Hooks right up to your existing chimney."
"Will burn green wood."
"Turbo-Flame Technology!"
The stove shop didn't want the customer to know or someone forgot to ask? Every shop I went to gave me an itemized estimate for the whole job. How many dealers were visited, how many estimates for installation? Our initial installation estimate was almost the same as the $1500 estimate and that was a year ago. But the second estimate was $450 for the install and about $550 for the pipe. Shop around.
In fairness to dealer that gave us a quote for $1650 install, that was with Excel pipe, which is a more expensive product. And based on other installs that I had checked into, the installers had a first rate reputation. My lesser price install came from a large spa and stove shop. They used Simpson pipe instead. The install was adequate, but failed my inspection because they had the rear exit pipe going downhill slightly and were missing screws on one joint. When the 'spa boy' came out to fix things, he scratched the pipe. I ended up fixing the minor errors.
The point being, if I knew nothing about stoves, I would definitely recommend paying a bit more and going with the best.
In fairness to dealer that gave us a quote for $1650 install, that was with Excel pipe, which is a more expensive product. And based on other installs that I had checked into, the installers had a first rate reputation. My lesser price install came from a large spa and stove shop. They used Simpson pipe instead. The install was adequate, but failed my inspection because they had the rear exit pipe going downhill slightly and were missing screws on one joint. When the 'spa boy' came out to fix things, he scratched the pipe. I ended up fixing the minor errors.
The point being, if I knew nothing about stoves, I would definitely recommend paying a bit more and going with the best.
Number 9, All woodstoves are just a metal box to burn wood in, go buy a Century or Englander from a national chain, preferably when they go on sale in the spring.
#8 - Wood is messy and yikes, there's spiders in it! ;-)
#7 - It's damn hard to find a supplier for 14" logs to fit into that tiny firebox
#7 - It's damn hard to find a supplier for 14" logs to fit into that tiny firebox
RedOctober said:
My dealer forgot to mention that the instal & materials were seperate costs.
he said something like "and in addition to the stove, that will be $800 for the install and also for the the liner"
What he MEANT was an additional $1600.
It's what I get for not getting it in writing.
#6. An 8 hour burn time actually means flames for 4-5 hours then coals with just enough left at the end of 8 hours to hopefully start a new load without matches.
- Jun 5, 2007
- 27
BeGreen said:
I really knew nothing about woodstoves until I went to buy one for my place in the mountains. The dealer wouldn't really even ballpark the install until he drove out and viewed the site. Once he did, THEN he went back and wrote it up to the penny. He also did an inspection on the existing stove in a different part of the house, which turned into another stove/installation sale. All in all, I spent a few thousand dollars on two stoves and installations, but I feel really good about it-the guy was totally up-front about the costs, and didn't try and push more than I needed.
I had a great experience with Santa Cruz Stove-I wish everyone I dealt with was this easy!
~jd
How about #1 How much is the stove?
When I bought my Oslo, its a good thing I called serveral dealers. Dealer #1 said he had "The Best Deals in CT"
Dealer #4 from RI Said "He'd match any ones price!"
Matte black Oslo F500
dealer 1 $1999.00
dealer 2 $1799.00
dealer 3 $1699.00
dealer 4 $1399.00
Ouch!
When I bought my Oslo, its a good thing I called serveral dealers. Dealer #1 said he had "The Best Deals in CT"
Dealer #4 from RI Said "He'd match any ones price!"
Matte black Oslo F500
dealer 1 $1999.00
dealer 2 $1799.00
dealer 3 $1699.00
dealer 4 $1399.00
Ouch!
#5 - There is a technology called catalytic stoves that may be much more appropriate for your needs, but I am not going to tell you about it other than to say it's obsolete and nobody uses it anymore because I don't stock any.
(except that little company up in NH that makes one of the top stoves on the market...)
I think VC gets it right on that front - last I read one of their brochures, the message was both have their pros/cons and let the consumer educate themselves to make a decision. Don't think he sells VC.
Seriously, I'm annoyed to hear that the guy at Heat Revival in Pleasant Valley is telling every client that comes through his doors that catalytic stoves are somehow "old" technology that has been abandoned and nobody uses anymore. After a friend just got that story from him, I'm not mentioning the store to anyone who asks about local dealers other than to steer them away from places that lack a full selection - comments like that are just blatant lies. And our other local hearth store (Ashleighs) is equally bad in my experiences trying to order a chimney trim ring through them - took weeks of going back and forth after which point I gave up and ordered online.
Sean Kennedy on the forum seems to be the best around by far from his posts and I will start telling folks in this area to make the drive and not waste their time in Dutchess County.
-Colin
(except that little company up in NH that makes one of the top stoves on the market...)
I think VC gets it right on that front - last I read one of their brochures, the message was both have their pros/cons and let the consumer educate themselves to make a decision. Don't think he sells VC.
Seriously, I'm annoyed to hear that the guy at Heat Revival in Pleasant Valley is telling every client that comes through his doors that catalytic stoves are somehow "old" technology that has been abandoned and nobody uses anymore. After a friend just got that story from him, I'm not mentioning the store to anyone who asks about local dealers other than to steer them away from places that lack a full selection - comments like that are just blatant lies. And our other local hearth store (Ashleighs) is equally bad in my experiences trying to order a chimney trim ring through them - took weeks of going back and forth after which point I gave up and ordered online.
Sean Kennedy on the forum seems to be the best around by far from his posts and I will start telling folks in this area to make the drive and not waste their time in Dutchess County.
-Colin
That is a really rare price difference! I don't keep up to date on stove pricing, but there is not that much markup in them to have such a range (normally) - in your case you I would guess dealer #1 was a small dealer and therefore paying for for the stoves and freight, and selling above list (by a couple hundred) - whereas dealer 4 sounds like too good of a price to be true - but some dealers have overstock or else they know a customer like you is calling around, and so they are willing to make a tiny profit to get the sale. That may be good for the customer, but such a dealer is unlikely to be able to keep the doors open if they do that a lot. So pat yourself on the back cause you lucked out!
How about next thread - "Top Ten things that Customers did not want you to know"
1. They are pumping you for info, and after wasting an hour of your time intend to buy somewhere else
2. They will claim they are going to buy 4 stoves or more (between them and their friends) and therefore talk a good deal...and then come in and say "I want only mine now for that price" (but my friends will come in later)
3. They are an attorney-at-law and intend to sue your butt if things are not perfect (which they rarely are).
4. They are going to take a deal, and then pull out the credit card to take another 2.5% out of your hide.
5. They expect you to pull their replacement parts out of your floor model - who cares if your display stove has no glass....it's not burning, right?
6. They are going to keep coming in the store for 10 years or more and making certain they take up at least 5 hours of your time in total over the years
7. They are going to act amazed when the manufacturer of their stove model goes out of business in 15 years
8. They are going to come in the store 5 minutes before closing time to buy 3 bags of pellets - and, of course, BS with you.
9. They are going to act surprised when the stove does not last forever without any parts replacement
10. They are going to say "WHAT" when you tell them (after 3 years) that the glass they broke by trying to shove a log in using the stove door is not under warranty.
:coolsmirk:
How about next thread - "Top Ten things that Customers did not want you to know"
1. They are pumping you for info, and after wasting an hour of your time intend to buy somewhere else
2. They will claim they are going to buy 4 stoves or more (between them and their friends) and therefore talk a good deal...and then come in and say "I want only mine now for that price" (but my friends will come in later)
3. They are an attorney-at-law and intend to sue your butt if things are not perfect (which they rarely are).
4. They are going to take a deal, and then pull out the credit card to take another 2.5% out of your hide.
5. They expect you to pull their replacement parts out of your floor model - who cares if your display stove has no glass....it's not burning, right?
6. They are going to keep coming in the store for 10 years or more and making certain they take up at least 5 hours of your time in total over the years
7. They are going to act amazed when the manufacturer of their stove model goes out of business in 15 years
8. They are going to come in the store 5 minutes before closing time to buy 3 bags of pellets - and, of course, BS with you.
9. They are going to act surprised when the stove does not last forever without any parts replacement
10. They are going to say "WHAT" when you tell them (after 3 years) that the glass they broke by trying to shove a log in using the stove door is not under warranty.
:coolsmirk:
Well said Colin. There are two excellent and very current technologies for clean burning wood stoves. They each have their pro's and con's. Obviously you and I and many others understanding that, chose the "old" and exceedingly effective cat technology for reasons that work for us. This time of year, that cat just idles away slowly and steadily keeping my home right around 70-73, no smoke out the chimney and a lazy fire flickering away. Same for long burns when I'm sleeping or away and I'm not putting 65#'s wood in the firebox to make it happen. Gotta like that.NY Soapstone said:
NY Soapstone said:
I can understand a dealer saying that (in a little more flexible way).....for many years in our own shop we promoted non-cats over cats - because honestly they were (and maybe still are) the best thing for the majority of our customers (in Southern NJ). And it is true that many cats were designed to meet the EPA original specs and the track record for some has not been good.
We sold VC, FPX, Dutch and other cat models, so we didn't say they were a no-no, but given the choice we would steer most folks to the non-cats. Probably still would today....
There are exceptions to every rule. Also the market changes. Since most stove buyers from 1986 to 2000 were not as serious (oil was cheap), easy and fast startup was often more important than long burn time.
I guess the ability to view different trends is one advantage of Hearth.com
- Jun 5, 2007
- 27
Webmaster said:
I would think that anyone in retail wouldn't mind a customer that comes in and spends 30 minutes or so per year... Even if they aren't buying a stove, they might be buying accessories, consumables, etc. Plus, they obviously like you or your store, and will probably be a good referral source!
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