Trading off draft vs efficiency

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Caydel

Member
Oct 3, 2011
35
Ontario, Canada
Hi all.

I have a Continental CHMF200 wood furnace, the blue brother of the Napoleon HMF200. Overall, I like it... but I've been dealing with the issues of using a wood furnace in this house for three years now.

One major issue is draft - I have an 8" double wall internal chimney that rises ~45' above the level of the furnace in my basement. At the chimney base, there is an 8" to 6" adapter, from which 6" is run to the stove.

For reference, the stove manual calls for 0.04" - 0.06" of draft at max, with strict warnings to NEVER allow above 0.10" of draft go through the stove.

I installed a Dwyer Mk. II manometer a few years ago, and found out that my draft would range from 0.08" at the best of times (not cold out, still air) up to 0.2-0.3 when there was cold or a decent wind blowing across the top of the chimney. Needless to say, my flue temps were fairly high, and I was going through wood like no tomorrow with fairly low heat output - the heat was all going up the chimney.

To combat this, I installed a 6" barometric damper (https://www.grainger.ca/en/product/p/WWG45DX61) as permitted in the manual, and calibrated it for -0.06" vacuum. It does a good job of making sure the draw through the appliance remains stable and within tolerance, and in turn I get much more controlled burns, incredibly higher heat output into the plenum and ducts, and the wood lasts 2-3x as long in the firebox.

However, the downside of this is that I am sucking large amounts of heated room air up the chimney through the draft control. This has killed my flue temps - a hot fire maybe raises the chimney temps to 185-200* (although after a year, I am only seeing minimal creosote accumulation). More importantly, I'm aware that the stiff breeze of warmed room air traveling up the chimney is being replaced by ambient outdoor air.

Does anyone have thoughts as to what an appropriate 'next step' would be here?

I really see two options at this point:

1. I run a second outside air supply to the barometric damper, so that I'm at least not putting house air into the chimney. This would lower flue temps even further, and the run would be *very* inconveniently placed.

2. I install an old-fashioned manual damper between the barometric damper and the chimney to restrict the draft further - ie, do a 'bulk' restriction of the draft, and just reduce the barometric damper to a 'fune tuning' role.

Any further thoughts?
 
Not really sure you need to do anything.

How are you measuring flu temps? Is it heating the house ok?

Flue temps are measure both by a surface mount indicator and a probe indicator - both are in agreement.

It's heating the house OK... but I'm assuming it could be much more efficient if I'm not drawing significant amounts of outside air in in order to replace the large volume that goes up the chimney during burns in order to regulate the draft through the appliance.
 
Usually, exterior surface pipe temps are considered to be about half of what internal temps are. If you are getting the same measurement internal and external, something might be off in the measuring.

Do you have any adjustment left in your baro damper? I might try to lower to 0.4-0.5, but that would be about it. Or, could maybe try for a little lower but you don't want to mess up combustion. Which sounds like it's at a good spot for now. Thinking a manual damper would kill it too much.

I think some have run outside air right to their baro flapper, but I wouldn't likely try that with something that isnt a good secondary burner. Too much chance for making a lot of creosote for my liking.

Could be a 'it is what it is' thing.
 
Usually, exterior surface pipe temps are considered to be about half of what internal temps are. If you are getting the same measurement internal and external, something might be off in the measuring.

Do you have any adjustment left in your baro damper? I might try to lower to 0.4-0.5, but that would be about it. Or, could maybe try for a little lower but you don't want to mess up combustion. Which sounds like it's at a good spot for now. Thinking a manual damper would kill it too much.

I think some have run outside air right to their baro flapper, but I wouldn't likely try that with something that isnt a good secondary burner. Too much chance for making a lot of creosote for my liking.

Could be a 'it is what it is' thing.

Yeah, I've adjusted lower - basically, the tradeoff is the lower I adjust the damper, the more efficient the stove, but the more warmed house air gets sucked up the chimney.
 
Have you thought of making an outdoor air kit? When my boiler is powered on I have a motorized 4" damper that is normally closed installed into the same air supply as my LP boiler. Per the Tarm instuctions is dumps air near the boiler. Works great. Even the energy auditor was impressed with it.
 
You could probably do an outdoor air kit out of 4" pvc pipe...come down to the floor and loop around back up 4' or so off the floor, that will make a cold air trap that keeps cold air from just spilling into the basement...BUT, make sure the incoming pipe is not too high off the floor (keep it as short as possible)...in the right situation it can act as a chimney and actually cause a reverse draft which can pull CO into your home.
 
Thanks all for the feedback.

I went ahead and installed a manual damper (<$10 at the local hardware store) between my barometric damper and the chimney. It looks like the perfect addition to my existing setup - I can basically close the damper 50-75% to do a 'rough set' to reduce the bulk of the draft, then allow the barometric damper to do additional fine tuning and take care of the 'variability' based on wind and what have you.

Hard to measure accurately, but this has massively reduced the amount of heated room air flowing through the barometric damper and up my chimney, while the chimney pipe is much hotter to the touch. There's still appropriate draft (-0.04" - -0.06" as per the manual) at the furnace as measured by my manometer.
 
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Thanks all for the feedback.

I went ahead and installed a manual damper (<$10 at the local hardware store) between my barometric damper and the chimney. It looks like the perfect addition to my existing setup - I can basically close the damper 50-75% to do a 'rough set' to reduce the bulk of the draft, then allow the barometric damper to do additional fine tuning and take care of the 'variability' based on wind and what have you.

Hard to measure accurately, but this has massively reduced the amount of heated room air flowing through the barometric damper and up my chimney, while the chimney pipe is much hotter to the touch. There's still appropriate draft (-0.04" - -0.06" as per the manual) at the furnace as measured by my manometer.
Even though this isn't recommended, I have done the similar, except I don't even have a barometric damper, just a manual/key damper.

Eric
 
I've tried the manual (key) damper/baro damper combo in the past too...works fine as long as you remember to open the key damper before you open the door to load...:rolleyes: ::-)
 
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Even though this isn't recommended, I have done the similar, except I don't even have a barometric damper, just a manual/key damper.

Eric

Yep. The problem is, it's also recommended not to have too much draft! Unfortunately, it's looking like I had to break one rule or the other to have a somewhat efficient burn here ;(
 
I have a BD and a key damper installed in between the BD and furnace. I like it better installed this way vs downstream of the BD, but doing things this way won't help you with sucking heated air up your chimney. I like it better as it tends to keep my draft consistently where I have it dialed in at. I'm basically using the key damper to dial down, when needed, the already leveled out draft.

However, for the last two plus winters I have a 10" (?) cold air duct coming from outside hooked up directly to my BD. So all air I'm sending up the chimney to regulate my draft comes from outside. I can get away with this for a few reasons, but the big one is how clean my wood furnace burns. Even though I'm seeing internal flue temps as low as 280° measured about 10" from the collar of the furnace with a probe, I don't have any signs of condensation.
 
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