Trouble Choosing System...Help, Need Input!

[phishheadmi]

Hello All,

I just bought a house and would love a little input as to which system I should choose.

I like to heat with wood and would like to supply at least most of my heating needs with whatever wood burning system I choose. We had a VC Defiant in the house we just sold...loved it, but had the usual drawbacks (mess inside house, uneven heat, risk of fire, etc).

The house we just bought is about 3,000 sq ft on three levels (main floor, upstairs and finished basement) it's about 7 years old, well built and seems to be very well insulated. The main floor and upstairs is pretty open and I think lends itself well to wood heat. There is an existing zero clearance fireplace on the main floor, but it's not airtight and certainly not an efficient heater. My initial thought was to tear out the existing fp and replace it and the chimney system with a high efficiency zero clearance fireplace that would be a more efficient heater. Because I want to heat the basement as well, I've been looking at units that are able to be ducted to the basement or even into the existing forced air furnace ductwork. I had pretty much decided on going this route but was on a roadtrip with my wife over the weekend and had a lot of time to talk about the subject. We both love the idea of a usable wood fireplace but are not crazy about the drawbacks mentioned above. I think with the ductwork option, I can mostly eliminate the uneven heat aspect, but it still leaves us with the mess in the living room, the danger of having a fire in the house 24/7 and the work of tending to a fire in these smaller units. The existing fireplace though well built and I'm convinced safe, was unattractive so I've torn off the fake stone and exposed most of the interior portion of the chimney chase...so, we HAVE to replace it with something. I brought up the idea of putting a mid-priced gas unit (mainly for ambiance, not heat production) in place of the existing zc unit and installing a gasification boiler in the barn (the barn does not exist yet, but will be built in the spring about 40' from the house). Thus, heating the house (evenly, through our existing forced air ductwork) and the barn (with hot water I'll install)...this was very well received, so it's time for me to do a little more research!

I've done quite a bit of reading on these forums, but have a few questions right off the bat. First, what kind of results have people been having with gasifiers using a water to air exchanger? I still consider myself a newbie to wood burning, is a gasifier a bit too complicated for a relative newbie? Cost is definitely a concern, I figure I'll have about $6k in the zero clearance setup, is it reasonable to figure somewhere in the $6-8K range for a gasifier setup? What should I be considering in looking at a gasifier boiler? Any advice, comments, suggestions are appreciated!

 

[ohbie1]

I've done quite a bit of reading on these forums, but have a few questions right off the bat. First, what kind of results have people been having with gasifiers using a water to air exchanger? suggestions are appreciated!

I have a hot water/forced air hybrid sys. (OB) to which I hooked up (in parallel) the Tarm gasifier. I do have 1k gal. of storage. The only drawback I find with this sys. is that water below 135 deg. is useless (I believe the radiant heat can use quite a bit lower temps.), so when the storage hits 140, it's time to start the fire. Other than that, it's the same as the oil as far as quality of heat. One nice thing is you never hear the oil burner, so the heat is quiet.

 

[Gooserider]

It sounds like the boiler in the barn approach would be quite workable... The other option that might be worth considering is to put the boiler in the basement, as that would allow you to tend the fire w/o having to get dressed and go out in the cold... Works especially well w/ a walk-in basement, and still keeps the mess out of the main part of the house.

It is quite possible to do the water / air HX route, many of our members do that, and I hear it works well - might not be as great as radiant, but it will be a lot easier.

I also don't see anything that suggests you would have any more trouble learning to burn a gasser than any other wood burner, the techniques are a bit different, but every burner is a bit different, so it doesn't make a difference and running a gasser isn't all that harder.

However I think you might be significantly underestimating the costs - seems most of what I see says to figure about 2-3X the cost of the boiler for a self install...

Gooserider

 

[Duetech]

There is a water/air exchanger in my oil furnace supplied by an EKO40 gasifier. Going on our 4th winter with the boiler. Like it lots. With a sidearm heat exchanger for domestic hot water we save loads on fossil fuel expenses. Used to have a wood furnace but it never even came close the the quality of heat we are getting now. I like EKO but I would suggest you look into Econoburn because of threatening legislation rumors. Our insurance company frowns on solid fuel burners in the home but were satisfied with an aoutbuilding for the boiler. Self installs would probably be closer to 8-10k than 6k but the short 40' distance will save you a bundle in thermopex.

 

[stee6043]

I run a water/air HX with my gasser with zero complaints. Someday when money is flowing like beer at my house I will install radiant in-floor. But I'm quite pleased with my current setup.

I'd ballpark $10k for the boiler at a minimum if you're doing all of the install yourself. It's amazing how a $6k boiler can require so much "other stuff" to get setup. Chimney, plumbing, heat exchanger, fittings, etc. etc.

As Goose said I'd seriously consider putting the unit in your basement. One nice part about the unit being indoors is that all of the heat generated by the boiler stays in your youse (except what goes up your chimney). Also worth mentioning is that the cost of thermopex for outdoor installs can also be quite substantial...

 

[geobckmstr]

just set up with a o.s.w.b. total cost with 30%antifreece, all work myself, two runs 250 feet total,little over $13.000

 

[rkusek]

I just got my water/air HX for my forced air and have the EKO 40 in the barn and should be generating heat in the house by next week. Used the EKO 40 last winter just a couple months in the barn only. I really wanted to keep the mess out of the house as well plus I gained a heated workshop. While not completely necessary the storage is the key to efficiency and ease of use from what I read. 40' away will keep your underground costs to a minimum for sure. I spend about $3k to run about 325' even though the barn is only 150' away because the house design and septic drain field changed on me in relation to the barn. Plan well. I'm working on 1000 gal storage as well to get the maximum benefit out of all this money I've spent. I would say $10k is a good figure even with only 40' of underground. Leave yourself the option of adding DHW, radiant, hot tub, etc. with your plumbing if you think you may want that down the road. $6k for gas fireplace sounds steep. I had to lobby hard with the wife to even get a fireplace in the new home. We chose a Heatilator wood model for around $2500 and I thought a gas model was going to be quite a bit cheaper.

 

[twitch]

I have a Solo 30 plumbed to an air handler with water to air exchanger (no storage). I will second ohbie1's comment, the water needs to be hot for my system to heat the house properly. If the source from the boiler is much less than about 165-170, it will work, but the air handler will run for a long time trying to warm up the house. This is usually only a problem with a cold boiler startup.

 

[Gooserider]

How well a water / air HX setup will heat at lower water temperatures is largely a function of how big the HX surface area is... For any given amount of air flow, the bigger the HX, the lower the water temps you can use with it... However it has the tradeoff that as the size goes up, so does the cost, often dramatically. Also you can start hitting the wall in terms of fitting it into whatever air handler you are using...

Gooserider

 

[Fred61]

If I were going to have a central heating boiler in the house, I would put a minimum amount of money in the fireplace. Why burn wood in two places or any other fuel if the central heat will do the job. I would save the $6000.00 and put that money toward the boiler. In fact I would probably install an electric fireplace in that spot and enjoy the ambiance without burning any more than 75 watts of electricity.They even have them now that crackle like a real fire.
Several contributors to this forum have water to air heat exchangers. I'm sure they will be willing to offer guidance on your install.

 

[semlin]

unless the fireplace is well situated to heat the whole house, i would look for an inexpensive solution to your fireplace problem that is not driven by capacity or efficiency and focus your money on the main heat source. if you like wood fires, get a small wood burning stove that is attractive or fix up the one that is there.