Troubleshoot Classic Bay 1100i- Combustion Blower

[malty falcon]

Greetings,
I've read very long detailed thread, "

quadrafire 1100 pellet stove does nothing after blowing fuse n replacing it", but couldn't find my answer. ​

My control box never had any lights, red, green, or blue. Last season, I had occasional issues, and replaced the thermocouple. N ew thermocouple has continuity on leads. Old thermocouple did not.

Now, when I plug stove in and trip thermostat, the igniter comes on, but nothing else. Jumping the thermostat elicits a "click", and since igniter comes on, I am assuming thermostat is functioning normally.
2 Snap discs are closed, one is open. When I jump the open snapdisc, the blower (convection?) comes on.

By trying to follow the schematic/pathway diagrams, I understand the combustion blower MUST come on to create vacuum, which starts the auger. I can get auger to activate by sucking on the tubing!

QUESTIONS: The combustion blower is on the front left side of stove, and it has grey and black wires going to capacitor, and a blue wire going somewhere else. I do not find any power to these three wires. Which of these three wires should I power to confirm function of the combustion blower?

Do you have any other steps to follow to diagnose my issue? I really don't want to buy every possible part to try and diagnose the issue.

Thanks,
Malty Falcon

 

[Ssyko]

If there is no power to the motor i would suspect a bad control board.

 

[malty falcon]

Any other tips for CONFIRMING the board is bad?

 

[Ssyko]

Mutimeter, check blk/grey wires. No voltage is probably a triac gone or a logic chip has failed

 

[Tjune54]

The blower in the front left is the large convection fan. The combustion blower is on the left side, but is down low behind the combustion air inlet. If there is an OAK hose connected the motor is hard to find and the armature is on the outside and can be turned by hand. Most I find are stuck and need help on the first fire of the season. The fan housing is usually full of fly ash that binds the fan blades.

 

[malty falcon]

Ssyko,
Thanks for the suggestion, but this is a Quadra Fire Classic Bayy 1100. No triacs or logic chips on this unit. You must be thinking of the Enterprise model Warp Drive!

 

[malty falcon]

Tjune54,

Jackpot! The combustion motor will TRY to spin, but is binding up. I'll try to clean it, but suspect I'll have to dismantle a lot of other stuff just to access and remove the combustion blower fan for cleaning and/or replacing it.

Thank you so much for explaining which motor I need to get going. I'm so happy I didn't have to needlessly replace the control board, which costs MORE than a whole pallet of good pellets!!

 

[malty falcon]

The saga continues....

After a great struggle, I removed the combustion blower. Cleaned it up, lubed it a bit, and it would freely start and run. Huge struggle to re-install due to tight tolerances and awkward screw placement.

Upon re-starting the pellet stove, the combustion blower created the vacuum needed to start the auger, and stove came up to temp; the brand new thermocouple was certainly up over 1000 degrees, but it DID NOT a) re-start the auger, b)turn on the blower that heats the room.

Brand new thermocouple from "Stove-Parts_For_Less" seems pretty crappy. There is hardly any solder on the wires, but there is continuity. The first one they sent had NO solder on the wire tips, and I didn't even install it.

My latest questions: How do I test the thermocouple for functionality? Will I see a charge in voltage, or can I jumper it to get the auger to restart? I have already jumpered one of the snapdiscs to confirm the room-heating-blower works and runs.

 

[maraakate]

From what I have read from reviews and from the forums the aftermarket thermocouples are all junk. Sometimes the wiring is backwards and it will never trigger. So try reversing the leads. This is apparently fairly common complaint with the aftermarket ones. Another complaint I see is that they typically last about a year. If they're pretty crappy in construction they seem to short out the control boards too when they go.

 

[maraakate]

To answer your other questions:

I am pretty sure you do NOT want to short the thermocouple leads as I believe the computer is waiting to see when it goes over a certain voltage (which I believe is in the millivolt range? not sure, someone else here will know for sure). And yes, there is voltage, unsure if the wiring diagram shows which colour wire is positive and negative, as it matters.

I hear you on replacing the combustion blower. Just did that on my Santa Fe and it's awkward to get it in and out. I found a "flat rate" way to do it faster, but still a pain. When you had the fan out did you clean the housing in there? Mine had a lot of various debris in it. I'd imagine if you do the "leaf blower trick" it would remove all of that, but if you're me and don't have a leaf blower then you'll have to do it by hand.

 

[maraakate]

Ssyko,
Thanks for the suggestion, but this is a Quadra Fire Classic Bayy 1100. No triacs or logic chips on this unit. You must be thinking of the Enterprise model Warp Drive!

Not sure if you're trying to be funny, but there are triacs on the control board. The main logic chip controls monitoring the voltages, triggering the triacs, etc. It's not a board made of entirely discrete components with simple timers.

 

[Ssyko]

Inside the control box is a pcb that has logic chips transistors, relays, voltage regulators, caps and a relay. this is from a newer pantrol box for the 1100 (2013) now they do have much newer boards. but most all use the logics for timing and motor functions. try reversing the thermocouple wires as has been stated. thermocouples are not soldered they are welded at the very tip and that is all its supposed to have. the heat and the 2 different types of wire generate voltage that is destected by the control board and completes the start up sequence.

 

[malty falcon]

Sorry for the long delay in replying, was out of town.

This whole mess started last year, when the Classic Bay 1100 was acting irregular. Sometimes it would run fine, sometimes it would not fire the ignitor, and most troubling, it would run fine but fill the firepot with pellets upon shutdown. Some online agent suggested a new thermocouple was the place to start. I have progressed past that point, but still have problems.

As the saga continues, I now have a red and green light on the control box! I hadn't seen any light for 19 years with this unit, so that's a plus! All I have changed to get them on is switching the leads on the thermocouple. That switch also got the everything to successfully start the fire successfully! Here's the sequence upon start-up:

Set the thermostat higher;
Combustion blower comes on, then auger starts and igniter gets hot.
After couple of minutes, auger STOPS, and igniter and combustion fan continues.
After a couple more minutes, auger starts again and a flame is seen in firepot.
When flame is strong (1000 degrees?), the other fan(s) come on and pellet stove runs normally!

My problem now is the AUGER will continue running after the thermostat shuts off.

While I was out of town, my wife told me the unit wasn't operating, but she saw/smelled smoke. She unplugged the unit, opened the door and dumped some water on the smoldering pellets. The firepot was completely full of pellets, over 2 cups worth!

I need a bit more help to CONFIRM what part should be replaced next. I think I have checked all the other components, and am left with the expensive control box as the only source of these errors. I've seen aftermarket, or re-furbished control boxes, and would love your input on how to proceed. Thanks for all your patience in walking through these steps.

Jeff

 

[malty falcon]

Bump

 

[Ssyko]

sounds like you need a new board. auger is fed from its own circuit on the control board and the triac/relay (depending on age and version) may have failed/welded contacts

 

[malty falcon]

Ssyko, and all others,

This is really getting ridiculous, trying to repair old equipment . At the same timer I'm trying to replace a control board on a 8 yr old washing machine. I may be a cheapskate for not replacing the entire unit, but I'll make a smaller "carbon footprint" by repairing it instead.

The closest place selling Quadrafire parts is 1-1/4 away, but heir part number doesn't match mine (TASSB-93V). They want to sell me a control box they SAY is cross-referenced to fit my stove, but it is a SRV7000-205. When I check it out, it is for a Classic Bay 1200, and a 3-SPEED fan. My stove, Classic Bay 1100 insert only has one fan speed (that I know of).

I can find old references to the original Part number, but they they are rebuilt units, with no warranty, phone number. There is a service on Ebay for rebuilding these control boxes, but they haven't responded to my emails.

The Quadrafire "factory authorized" dealer for my zip code was very brusque on the phone, said he'd sell me one for my unit for $375 or something, but wouldn't give me the model number- kind of a take it or leave kinda deal! For something with absolutely no guaranty that it's the right part, and no way to get my money back, I didn't think that was a good idea.

Thanks for all the help, I'll keep trying to get Quadrafire to give me the scoop.

 

[Mt Bob]

Ssyko, and all others,

This is really getting ridiculous, trying to repair old equipment . At the same timer I'm trying to replace a control board on a 8 yr old washing machine. I may be a cheapskate for not replacing the entire unit, but I'll make a smaller "carbon footprint" by repairing it instead.

The closest place selling Quadrafire parts is 1-1/4 away, but heir part number doesn't match mine (TASSB-93V). They want to sell me a control box they SAY is cross-referenced to fit my stove, but it is a SRV7000-205. When I check it out, it is for a Classic Bay 1200, and a 3-SPEED fan. My stove, Classic Bay 1100 insert only has one fan speed (that I know of).

I can find old references to the original Part number, but they they are rebuilt units, with no warranty, phone number. There is a service on Ebay for rebuilding these control boxes, but they haven't responded to my emails.

The Quadrafire "factory authorized" dealer for my zip code was very brusque on the phone, said he'd sell me one for my unit for $375 or something, but wouldn't give me the model number- kind of a take it or leave kinda deal! For something with absolutely no guaranty that it's the right part, and no way to get my money back, I didn't think that was a good idea.

Thanks for all the help, I'll keep trying to get Quadrafire to give me the scoop.

Quadra-Fire 800 Nova, 1000, 1100i Control Box Circuit Board 812-0261, OEM | eBay

1100i Insert. Electrical: 120V AC. Ensure your stove is unplugged from the wall when working with any electronic components. No problem give us a ring. Check out the only ash vacuum made by pellet stove professionals in a corded and cordless option.

www.ebay.com

 

[Mt Bob]

Or-

https://www.stove-parts-unlimited.com/quadra-fire-control-box-812-0261-p/812-0261.htm

Just more expensive, same box

 

[maraakate]

You can also call Pantrol in Spokane, WA as they manufactured the board. Tell them what model stove it is and they will sell it direct to you. Usually is cheaper than most dealers.

Their website is https://pantrol.com/

 

[malty falcon]

Maraakate,
Pantrol took all of last week as a vacation, but I waited, hoping to save some money!!
I spoke with Nate and Gene, and they were super knowledgable. Nate has been at Pantrol for 22 years, and helped me further understand how all the parts work together. Walmart has the control box for $299, and Pantrol is selling me one for $229. Mountainview Hearth Products has the same product for $444

Nate also said I was lucky to have gotten 30 years of service out of the original unit. Hopefully I'll have my Quadrafire 100 up and running by next week.

The control board for my washing machine was only $75, but now I gotta find some helpers to get the unit out of it's enclosure, and the dryer lifted off the stack. Ain't technology grand!