I am thinking of using ultra-fin plates ( www.pexsupply.com/Ultra-Fin-Radiant-Panel-System-1617000 )on a project. Anybody have any experience with these?
bigburner said:Here's my two cents - done it every way possible -in the 70s we used PVC and in the 80's we used polyebulylene, then Wirsbo because that's all there was and now B PEX seams to the tube of choice. If you are warming floors one run of 1/2 tube down the bay with reflective bubble wrap and if you are heating with it, run two down the joist space. Just get it in the space- we usually nail it on the side of the joist,TGI etc. I don't use emission plates they can be noisy, hard to install and costly. Just tubing -300 ft or less and bubble foil, witch can be left exposed if desired, it meets the astm 84 requirement for flame spread and smoke index. IMO
bigburner said:The system I described has been used on new and old construction. There is no clear cut answer your question. The floor is only one component of the whole energy system. If you got an uninsulated drafty house, won't work so good! If you had 2.5 inch floors and wanted to have this as your sole means of heating with low water temps, it would be a big stretch. If you want to complement with a another source of heat, ya it will give you warm floors. Thinking back in the residential market we have never ever only done one source of heat, meaning some radiant floor,panel heaters, Water to air HX and usually with A/C. I don't make money from selling whiz bang products we make it by having the experience of getting a comfortable home based on a primary heat source and a secondary heat source usually set up as a second stage for the extreme cold days with high winds, those are the times when low mass radiant systems fall on there face.
barnartist said:I did not use plates on the first half of my house. I have plush carpets with padding, I used the bubble wrap and r-19 fiberglass insulation. It heats great at 130f water. We have not been below 10F outside yet this winter, but when we do get closer to 0 as we did some days last year, I do need to turn up the temp to around 140.
barnartist said:HR, why did you go with only a few plates on the install? was that enough to do the trick? I had planned on having several, maybe 4 plates for each joist bay... maybe I only need plates closer to the walls? My thought is the more plates the lower the water temp required to help heat the area.
I did not use plates on the first half of my house. I have plush carpets with padding, I used the bubble wrap and r-19 fiberglass insulation. It heats great at 130f water. We have not been below 10F outside yet this winter, but when we do get closer to 0 as we did some days last year, I do need to turn up the temp to around 140.
Ncountry said:barnartist said:I did not use plates on the first half of my house. I have plush carpets with padding, I used the bubble wrap and r-19 fiberglass insulation. It heats great at 130f water. We have not been below 10F outside yet this winter, but when we do get closer to 0 as we did some days last year, I do need to turn up the temp to around 140.
Did you staple pex tight to subfloor or suspend in space close to the subfloor in the first half of your house?
barnartist said:Wow, you actually took out plates to put these in? You must really be a believer in the extruded. I have never heard of them til you just mentioned it. I looked them up. What is the thinking that these will allow you to run at a lower temp?
They look thick and pricey- true?
Here you go, room temperature around 56F, white is 95F.DaveBP said:hr, I love these IR scanner pictures. Can you tell us what temperature range we're seeing with the colors from purple-orange-yellow-white?
Willman said:I installed the ultra fins in my bedroom and walk in closet 12'x24' 5 yrs ago. Went the hard way for tubing install. Perpendicular to joists. Labor intensive to say the least. I feel as if the joist bays maintain a more even temp than running parallel to joists. Wouldn't want to pay the labor on a perp install though. Used PAP for tubing.
I mix down to 140* for this loop. This is the only disadvantage to suspended install.
I used 2" foil face foam board fitted into joist bays screwed to sleepers. With 3" air space to emitters) Finished it off with another 2" foil foam board running perpendicular to first layer.
Ultra fin has a heat loss calc on their web site that determines tubing spacing as well as the number of emitters and their placement. This is all based on the location of the project as well as the rooms heat loss. Bedroom maintains a constant temp no matter what it is set at. Warm floors are a slight misnomer as target floor temps are generally high 80* ish.
When I grow up and can swing the cash to install real hardwood nail down flooring instead of the engineered I don't have to be concerned with the nail issues. Although after nailing one can cut off all the nails that penetrate for a flat plate staple up install.
I have a couple of small rugs on the floor and they are very warm when I lift them to feel floor. So I would prolly stay away from full rugs.
There is no noise issue whatsoever no matter what. Even turning on heat for the first time in the fall.
Just my opinion on the fins.
Will
in hot water said:Willman said:I installed the ultra fins in my bedroom and walk in closet 12'x24' 5 yrs ago. Went the hard way for tubing install. Perpendicular to joists. Labor intensive to say the least. I feel as if the joist bays maintain a more even temp than running parallel to joists. Wouldn't want to pay the labor on a perp install though. Used PAP for tubing.
I mix down to 140* for this loop. This is the only disadvantage to suspended install.
I used 2" foil face foam board fitted into joist bays screwed to sleepers. With 3" air space to emitters) Finished it off with another 2" foil foam board running perpendicular to first layer.
Ultra fin has a heat loss calc on their web site that determines tubing spacing as well as the number of emitters and their placement. This is all based on the location of the project as well as the rooms heat loss. Bedroom maintains a constant temp no matter what it is set at. Warm floors are a slight misnomer as target floor temps are generally high 80* ish.
When I grow up and can swing the cash to install real hardwood nail down flooring instead of the engineered I don't have to be concerned with the nail issues. Although after nailing one can cut off all the nails that penetrate for a flat plate staple up install.
I have a couple of small rugs on the floor and they are very warm when I lift them to feel floor. So I would prolly stay away from full rugs.
There is no noise issue whatsoever no matter what. Even turning on heat for the first time in the fall.
Just my opinion on the fins.
Will
Good point about the under rug temperature, it does dampen the output. Here is what a throw rug looks like when you fold it over. The top runs around 70F.
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