Unable to control Hearthstone Heritage burn

[tacmedic32]

I have a brand new Hearthstone Heritage soapstone stove. When we first got it the first fire was very hot, even with the air control closed all the way and the CI Damper closed as well. The problem went away after the first 24 hours of burning. A few days later I opened the ash grate and cleared out much of the ash with the pan, leaving the recommended 1-2" of ash in the bottom. At this time the coals in the bottom glowed bright white and burned extremely hot. I made sure the ash grate was closed and the door to the ash pan was closed too, but the fire went on. I fear there is too much air flowing through the ash grate even with the door closed when it is freshly cleaned and only seals up after a bunch of ash accumulates in the grate. Is there any way to remedy this problem so my ash pan is usable, or should I just stick to shoveling out my coals for the rest of my life. Otherwise, I absolutely love this stove.

Info: Hearthstone Heritage, 31 foot external brick chimney with dura vent ss liner.

 

[Warm_in_NH]

If your grate is lime mine (I have a hearthstone Shelburne) it slides side to side to open or close it. The factory told me never to run the stove with the grate open. Their reasoning is that "these stoves are meant to run with an "over fire" opening the grate would create an "under fire" decreasing the efficiency of the stove"

So, despite making sure I picked a stove with a ash pan, I shovel the ashes out once a week. Like you, other than that I love the stove, but that's a pretty big flaw.

 

[holg]

I have a brand new Hearthstone Heritage soapstone stove. When we first got it the first fire was very hot, even with the air control closed all the way and the CI Damper closed as well. The problem went away after the first 24 hours of burning. A few days later I opened the ash grate and cleared out much of the ash with the pan, leaving the recommended 1-2" of ash in the bottom. At this time the coals in the bottom glowed bright white and burned extremely hot. I made sure the ash grate was closed and the door to the ash pan was closed too, but the fire went on. I fear there is too much air flowing through the ash grate even with the door closed when it is freshly cleaned and only seals up after a bunch of ash accumulates in the grate. Is there any way to remedy this problem so my ash pan is usable, or should I just stick to shoveling out my coals for the rest of my life. Otherwise, I absolutely love this stove.

Info: Hearthstone Heritage, 31 foot external brick chimney with dura vent ss liner.

I'm a newbie to the Heritage as well, so I will leave the technical stuff to those with more expertise. My prior stove I always shoveled out, so I just started doing the same with the Heritage. I have a nice old pot that fits nicely under the side door and shoveling out is accomplished with no real mess. Pot has handles and a lid to keep things tidy. I try and just remove ash, but a few coals find there way in. The pot goes out, the ashes get dumped on the snow and it seems to work for me.
When you say the coals burned bright white, were you referring to thru out the bottom or just a little in front where the primary air comes out? If it is all over the bottom, that does sound like something to address that those with more knowledge will likely chime in on.

 

[tacmedic32]

I'm a newbie to the Heritage as well, so I will leave the technical stuff to those with more expertise. My prior stove I always shoveled out, so I just started doing the same with the Heritage. I have a nice old pot that fits nicely under the side door and shoveling out is accomplished with no real mess. Pot has handles and a lid to keep things tidy. I try and just remove ash, but a few coals find there way in. The pot goes out, the ashes get dumped on the snow and it seems to work for me.
When you say the coals burned bright white, were you referring to thru out the bottom or just a little in front where the primary air comes out? If it is all over the bottom, that does sound like something to address that those with more knowledge will likely chime in on.

It was burning bright white above the ash grate and subsequently across most of the bottom of the stove. The air control had no affect on the level of burn and if I opened the ash pan door the fire triples in size. It takes about a good 24 hours of burning and ash building up in that grate to make the fire controllable again.

 

[tacmedic32]

If your grate is lime mine (I have a hearthstone Shelburne) it slides side to side to open or close it. The factory told me never to run the stove with the grate open. Their reasoning is that "these stoves are meant to run with an "over fire" opening the grate would create an "under fire" decreasing the efficiency of the stove"

So, despite making sure I picked a stove with a ash pan, I shovel the ashes out once a week. Like you, other than that I love the stove, but that's a pretty big flaw.

Mine pan slides front to back but the book says keep closed when burning to prevent over fire. It actually has a function that won't allow it open if you close the ash pan door.

 

[Highbeam]

That ash pan door should have a gasket which will prevent any air from coming up through tbe grate. If you can ever see the effects of air coming up thriugh thegrate even with the door closed then your gasket has failed and you must repair it.

That said, the heritage ash pan is stupid and is not worth using. Shovel instead.

 

[holg]

It was burning bright white above the ash grate and subsequently across most of the bottom of the stove. The air control had no affect on the level of burn and if I opened the ash pan door the fire triples in size. It takes about a good 24 hours of burning and ash building up in that grate to make the fire controllable again.

I defer to Highbeam on this, as he has tons more experience with a Heritage than I do. What you describe does sound like too much air getting in from the ash pan, at least from the bottom somewhere, and the gasket and door would be the likely suspects. I don't know enough about the way the bottom is put together, but wonder if there is anyplace that could leak air into the ashpan area other than the door.
Maybe do the incense stick procedure to see if it looks like air is sucking in around the ashpan door (or someplace else under the stove). Probably would have to remove a bunch of ashes first, and do a small not hot fire to check it out.
Once you get this understood, and fixed if need be, I think you will like this stove. Of course, you probably have several seasons of learning yet ahead.

 

[Warm_in_NH]

One of my custom has a Heritage installed while we were working there (carpentry work). The company that did the install was back twice messing with the seal on the ash pan door in the few days we were still there after the install, it was bad right out if the factory.
I will email him to see if it was ever resolved and what they did. If I hear back I'll update this post for you.

 

[Highbeam]

The ash pan chamber below the firebox has no air intake or holes other then the ash grate and the ash pan door. The big door is sealed and the latch is supposed to compress a rope gasket to prevent any fresh air from leaking into the ash pan chamber. It's a wonky big door with sloppy hinges and the typical wonky door latch. This gasket must be leaking if you are seeing evidence of air blowing on coals from the ash pan grate in the firebox.

The ash grate mechanism in the firebox floor is operated by a lever from inside the ash pan chamber. The design is such that closing the ash pan access door is supposed to also close the ash pan grate. The intent of the design is to prevent the ash grate from passing ash while the ash pan door is closed. You are supposed to open the grate and fill the ash pan manually through the grate. It's a totally stupid design made doubley bad by only holding about a pint of ash.

The problem described by the OP is a leaky ash door seal. Repair the seal until no air is evident leaking up from below.

You might try carefully closing the ash pan door being sure to lift up on the latch side of the wonky long door to assure gasket alignment. Get down there on your belly and inspect the alignment as you close the door.

The stove is really pretty good.

 

[ridemgis]

Highbeam is right on the money. Your ash door isn't sealing properly. Fix that and see how it burns. 31 feet is a lot of chimney for this stove which dumps a huge amount of heat up the flue. After my first season of burning I was casting around for ideas to gain more control over the intake air. My solution was to purchase the outside air adapter, a short section of 3 inch diameter galvanized duct from HD and a 3" key damper. Drill a couple of holes in the 3 inch pipe, install the damper, and hose clamp the whole thing to the OAK adapter. Now you've got an easy to use control for limiting intake air.

When it's cold and the fire is really ripping I can calm things down further by closing the damper in the 6" exit flue. With the stove buttoned up like that it's good idea to have a decent quality CO monitor nearby. I will say that with 24 feet of flue, my Heritage has kick ass draft. Without the extra control last season, I spent some anxious hours using a brick up against the air intake trying to control the burn.

I suspect this solution is not for most stoves, but the normal flue temps with the Heritage create some wicked draft.

 

[tacmedic32]

That ash pan door should have a gasket which will prevent any air from coming up through tbe grate. If you can ever see the effects of air coming up thriugh thegrate even with the door closed then your gasket has failed and you must repair it.

That said, the heritage ash pan is stupid and is not worth using. Shovel instead.

The gasket appears intact and although I haven't done the dollar bill test because it is currently 8 degrees out and I need the stove, it has done it since the first burn.

 

[tacmedic32]

Highbeam is right on the money. Your ash door isn't sealing properly. Fix that and see how it burns. 31 feet is a lot of chimney for this stove which dumps a huge amount of heat up the flue. After my first season of burning I was casting around for ideas to gain more control over the intake air. My solution was to purchase the outside air adapter, a short section of 3 inch diameter galvanized duct from HD and a 3" key damper. Drill a couple of holes in the 3 inch pipe, install the damper, and hose clamp the whole thing to the OAK adapter. Now you've got an easy to use control for limiting intake air.

When it's cold and the fire is really ripping I can calm things down further by closing the damper in the 6" exit flue. With the stove buttoned up like that it's good idea to have a decent quality CO monitor nearby. I will say that with 24 feet of flue, my Heritage has kick ass draft. Without the extra control last season, I spent some anxious hours using a brick up against the air intake trying to control the burn.

I suspect this solution is not for most stoves, but the normal flue temps with the Heritage create some wicked draft.

I know the 31 ft of chimney is a lot, but it is the existing fireplace chimney which I lined with a dura vent ss liner. All in all I am very happy with the stove, I am just working out the little kinks. I will go back and check the book, but you mention the outside air adapter....that connects behind the ashpan correct? If I hold my hand over the back left corner of the ashpan the crazy burning dies down. I will have to wait for this "polar vortex" to pass before I do any real experimenting, but I will take everyone's ideas into account. Thanks!

 

[Highbeam]

100% of combustion air is supposed to be coming through that single hole in the back so plugging that hole should snuff the fire.

 

[tacmedic32]

I emailed Hearthstone since the stove is less than two months old, and I will post what they suggest.

 

[Alpine]

Stop using the ash pan. Too much risk for an improper seal due to incorrect positioning or worn gaskets. In addition, it doesn't facilitate the ash disposal task. I can empty my Homestead's ashes in less than 5 minutes using a covered roasting pan and a shovel with no ash dusting. My stove is 6 years old, very tight and I've only changed the door gasket once. All other gaskets are original.
Your chimney is very tall and you need to install a stove pipe damper in a location that you can easily access for frequent adjustments. I have a 27 foot lined chimney and my installer strongly recommended an exhaust damper. It works great and I have total control of my stove's burning rate using this damper in conjunction with the stove air control lever. I burn 4+ cords per year, clean my chimney once a year and get about a gallon of fine dust.

 

[swestall]

The ash pan, door and its chamber is my biggest complaint about the Hearthsones. I would have much preferred a deeper fire box. Don't use the stupid thing. The grate can easily get stuck open just a bit due to small coals getting stuck in the grate when you try to close it; the symptom is what you describe. That and a bad door gasket...in fact sometimes you just move the handle while not knowing it. I use a small galvanized pail, a solid shovel and one of those with lots of holes in it. I sift out the coals and put the fine ash in the pail. 5 minutes about twice a week in 24/7 time. Also, I'd not operate the stove without the exhaust damper. It gives you the ability to slow things down while still getting a great secondary fire and no smoke up the stack, thereby reducing wood consumption.
Hope that helps.

 

[tacmedic32]

The ash pan, door and its chamber is my biggest complaint about the Hearthsones. I would have much preferred a deeper fire box. Don't use the stupid thing. The grate can easily get stuck open just a bit due to small coals getting stuck in the grate when you try to close it; the symptom is what you describe. That and a bad door gasket...in fact sometimes you just move the handle while not knowing it. I use a small galvanized pail, a solid shovel and one of those with lots of holes in it. I sift out the coals and put the fine ash in the pail. 5 minutes about twice a week in 24/7 time. Also, I'd not operate the stove without the exhaust damper. It gives you the ability to slow things down while still getting a great secondary fire and no smoke up the stack, thereby reducing wood consumption.
Hope that helps.

Ok ok, I get it, the ash pan is crap. I won't be using it anymore. Should I replace the door gasket as well? The stove is 2 months old. And is it safe to run the exhaust damper almost completely closed, or will that build creosote and put me at risk of fire? I am still new to this art and like to keep my house standing. I have easy access to the damper it is about 8-12" behind my stove. The stove is on a hearth in front of an existing fireplace with only about 20" of pipe exposed.

 

[swestall]

It is actually the ash grate that is crap; difficulty to use and almost impossible to close when you have coals (always). I suspect the gasket is good, but look at it and see if it is sealing, you should see the imprint from where it mates with the door frame all around it. I use two shovels and a small galvanized garbage pan to remove ashes. I place the can to the right side w/the door open. Once shovel is solid, the other is the kind that has a sifting mesh in it (search amazon). I sift the coals from the ash, left side of the fire box to right. (dumping the coals in a space that is clean of ash because I just sifted it out) When the solid shovel is full, doesn't take much, I lift the cover with one hand and put the ash in with the other, then quickly recover the can. Over and over till there are only coals.

I never completely close the primary damper, but almost - I use the tip of my index finger as a measure and close down only so my finger fits tightly between the stop and the damper lever. I also have a regular exhaust damper installed in the pipe above my stove - only about 6 inches from the outlet. I have double wall pipe and rather than buy a pipe with the damper, I installed one in my stove adapter. I only close this down to just about 1/2 normally; on strong draft days I close it down to maybe 3/4; never all the way-except for a runaway fire. You can tell what is going on by how your flames look. As you close, they slow down and then pickup again. It is good to stage the fire down. Close the primary about 1/2 and the exhaust about 1/4 and let the flames adjust. If it goes out, open up again as it was not hot enough. As you get to a good fire with these settings shut it down again, first the primary to where you have about a quarter inch or so (use your finger). After that you should be able to shut the exhaust draft down to 1/2. If you still have a fast/hard fire shut the exhaust down a little more, if you have a fire that is struggling then open the exhaust up a bit. IT IS IMPORTANT to know your wood moisture will affect where the damper setting is better. Wetter wood the more open it will need to be, and dryer the less. Just practice taking small steps and you will get it - after a while. Just keep at it and don't let it get you down, you will get use to it. The stone stove is very different. As for my set up you can see it in my avatar.

I might say that you should try to keep your stove top at 450-550. At 550 you will get some nice heat for these cold spells. At 450 you should be fine for 25 degrees and up. (depending on your home's heat retention abilities). Last night I was burning 550-600 and it needed it. You can burn it at 600; it likes it. What people say about the temps being hotter when the secondaries are burning is so true. As you experiment with it watch them and the thermometer on your stack and stove top; you'll see that. OH, that is important. You need to monitor the temp at your stovetop (my thermometer for that is just in front of the flue adaptor) and at the stovepipe about 18 inches up. given all the variables I am not sure any two installations are the same. I have a standard thermometer for the stovetop (a black one looks nice) and since I have double wall, I have a probe thermometer in the pipe. For me my stovetop will come up slowly (the stone) and my flue pipe will start slow and rise to about 1000 quickly once it hits 600. At that point, I am shutting it down to the 1/4 primary, 1/2 exhaust damper and watching that the secondaries keep going. It will then settle in to cruise at about 600-850 on the exhaust probe and about 5-475-550 on the stove top. You will have to find what your readings on the exhaust are when your stovetop cruises at these temps and your secondaries are burning good.

Never go over 700, if you get up there, shut the exhaust damper all the way till it dies down and cools a bit, back to say 550.

I hope all this helps. The Soapstone takes getting use to. I burned cast iron for 30 years prior and had to relearn how to burn with the stone. (I still have cast in the shop). But, I think it is worth it because I don't get up to reload in the early morning anymore. I have lots of coals and throw a few splits on when I get up; off she goes.

 

[Highbeam]

Good post sewestall except you should know and the OP should really know that this stove has a 600 degree redline overfire temp. Do not exceed 600 as measured on the stovetop or you risk cracked stones or worse. The heritage at 550 is making major mojo and if you need more than that then you need a larger stove. No excuses, don't abuse the heritage.

 

[superjack40]

First season with a Heritage. If the stove top is burning at 550 approaching 600 with primary air shut down is the only other means for controlling the burn to put a damper inline? I have a really good draft and when I let her burn hot i cant slow it down? When coals have built up and i a good fire is going i can have a thin layer of coals with no splits on and the stove top is at 500. The stove is tight.

 

[Highbeam]

First season with a Heritage. If the stove top is burning at 550 approaching 600 with primary air shut down is the only other means for controlling the burn to put a damper inline? I have a really good draft and when I let her burn hot i cant slow it down? When coals have built up and i a good fire is going i can have a thin layer of coals with no splits on and the stove top is at 500. The stove is tight.

Pipe damper, reduced wood load, or obstruct the single 3" hole on the back of the stove that all air passes through. Due to the non-cat design principles, your stove is "uncontrollable" on purpose.

 

[Woody Stover]

or should I just stick to shoveling out my coals for the rest of my life.

I would not wish that on any man. I would engineer my way out of it.
Were any of the recent changes to the Heritage internal, or just cosmetic such as the load door? Post #7 https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/hpb-expo-news.125755/

 

[DougA]

I've been running the Hearthstone Equinox for only a week and I'm not sure of the differences but the ash door is a bit of a pain to work on mine. You really have to make sure that are working the slider back and forth enough to ensure that there are no chunks stuck in the grate or mechanism when you are closing it. It does take some getting used to.
I know a lot of stores push people away from ash drawers of any make but it's like anything else, you really need to learn the technique. It's not for everyone but so far, I find it much easier than shoveling.