UPDATE - Help-new insert-no heat above 300 degrees

[kflorence]

I wanted to let everyone who helped/advised me on my problem with my wood stove insert and not able to get above 300 degrees. The city inspector came out to my home today to inspect the install and per my request he "failed" it. He then contacted the installer who has been in business for many years to let him know about the failure. I also contacted my credit card company and they put a dispute on my card and will credit me the entire amount charged unless the installer rectifies the situation. Due to the fact the city "failed" the install the credit card company is 100% behind me. Then my phone did not stop ringing from the company I bought the wood stove from and the installer. Long story short the installer will make good and come out on Monday and give me a "full liner" with a block off plate. He will come back "free of charge" with all the labor and I will have to pay $312 for the materiel (liner). He wants to make good on the situation. After talking to him he explained to me that because I have a "center chimney" fireplace he did not think that a full liner was necessary. He thought I would not have a draft problem with that set up because of the center chimney. He told me that I have a block off plate and full blanket installed now so "air supply" is not the problem. He said that the problem is that the 6" flue pipe is dumping into a 12"x12" flue which is causing the draft problem. No kidding I told him!! I will be here when they come back because I am not sure if he really did install a block off plate and blanket because I put a match at the surround (with no fire in the wood stove) and the flame practically sucked in. I believe from what someone said the flame would get sucked in if there was "no" block off plate". So I will see if he was telling me the truth. I told him he will not leave my home or get paid until he fires up the stove and gets me to at least 600 degrees!! I am most grateful to all of you who gave me advice on this. I feel like I know so much more about how wood stoves work. I am forever thankful to all of you. I will post next week to let you know the outcome.

By the way, if anyone ever paid using a credit card you have a great leg to stand on should there be a problem with your wood stove.

 

[ansehnlich1]

kflorence, this has got to be one of, if not THE BEST POST I've ever read on Hearth.com.

Awesome! I have every confidence the full liner will go a looooong way in fixing your problem.

You'll have to take some time getting used to burning the stove, making sure you have dry wood, etc. but you are well on the way!

Funny how the guys were suddenly eager to talk to ya eh???

Great stuff! God Bless!!

 

[fossil]

That's the kind of sequel I was looking forward to reading. You have my undying admiration for your persistence and your eagerness to learn. That insert should be a real good performer, when properly installed. Thanks for the update, and please keep us informed. Rick

 

[bbeals]

At least your story has a happy ending and given that the weather is going to turn for us this weekend in NH, I'll bet Monday can't come fast enough. You'll be pleased when it is done right.

 

[Rockey]

Aren't you glad you didn't throw that thermometer into the stove like some goofball told you to.

 

[Jfk4th]

BRAVO, BRAVO, BRAVO......I wish I did what you did 3 years ago.

My installer, by the way its name is Heritage Fireplace and Stoves in Lockport, NY, did a piss poor job. The problem was I didn't realize it until it was just about too late. They never returned my calls, I even showed up in Uniform (Yes I am a Police Officer) and they just gave me lip service. Shame on them but they should have realized that I talk to probably thousands of people each year in doing my job and I make sure that I put them down every time I can. Like I said shame on you Heritage Fireplace and Stoves....You did a terrible job with the install, used cheap pipe, bent the pipe, and used the least amount of chimney pipe just to pass code, not to get a good draft (I added 6 more feet later......) When when I wanted to upgrade to the Olympic after a short time they said they would and then wouldn't return my calls to complete the deal

Oh well you did it right, I payed with a check :down: ...Live and Learn I guess. But again that was when I was a "rookie"

I smile every time somebody talks to me about wood and wood stoves and since I work in the woods it happens a lot.....

Avalon Stove 1,400 dollars
Install 1,100 dollars
Putting down Heritage Fireplace and Stoves in Lockport, NY every time I can...PRICELESS

 

[bfunk13]

Good job!
Once this stove is up and running properly you wont be disappointed.
Way to go getting them back to do it right.

Brad

 

[Todd]

Good news. I bet he thinks a block off plate is either the insert surround or the chimney cap. I've run into this with a couple clueless installers before. I've also heard the old saying " If the fireplace drafts good with that chimney so will the insert" Wrong! They may have just stuffed some insulation around the old fireplace damper, that would still allow some air to go through. Tell him you want a metal block off plate at the damper area with an insulation blanket on top of it.

 

[Summertime]

I hope it works out for you, that's a good investment you have there and shame on them for doing a cheap install! It's a good thing you did it by code and had a inspector to stand behind you...

 

[Burd]

Well like I said before its hard to find good contractors. There not my of use left. Allso you should no alot more about your stove and the baffles.Now ask as my Qs that you can about burn times and seasoning wood. It looks like your going to get your insert up and running before old man winter hits us this week.
God bless and happy burning
(e)

 

[Dix]

K, that's awesome

You'll be cranking soon

You go, girl !

 

[stoveguy2esw]

glad to hear your issues are being corrected! to me it pains me to see some of the things that happen out in the world when it comes to substandard performance by supposed professionals. ive had many a call with an issue with my stoves when i ask about the install i get a reply from a custoer who assures me "oh the install was done by a professional, it must be right" and when i ask them to "humor me" and describe the install its not even close to correct.

to me being a "professional" means a bit more than "accepting money for a service" it means doing the job right to code and to manufacturer's specs. (no im not tooting my horn) i rarely do installs but they are always correct. people who do not know how to do somthing should be able to hire someone who professes to be able to do it correctly and expect it to be done that way!

my advice is to shop around , check for proper certifications, insurance , and above all request referrences dont subject yourself to the hassles our poster had to deal with and certainly work to avoid the situation our other poster who had such a bad time with had to deal with! (not hatin on ya brother , your post gave me an example to point to in this case) hope all is straightened out with your install as well.

 

[kflorence]

Thanks for the positive feedback. I am glad to see that you are all good people who seem to really want to help others out. Yes, I am glad I did not throw my thermostat in the wood stove like one person who suggested it. I had a feeling he was kidding but you never know. I will definately be looking over the installers shoulder when he removes the surround. I better see a block off plate or #@%! will fly for lying to me. Based on everything that I have learned in the last 2 days I will accept nothing less then a metal block off plate, insulated blanket, full SS liner and the installer to fire it up to the appropriate temp prior to him leaving my home or........no $$! & the city inspector wants me to call him once it is complete to my satisfaction. God must be looking over my shoulder sending this specific inspector. I am a realtor by trade and have come across many many inspectors and this one is a peach! My husband says I must have been a lawyer in another life. I look forward to what all the buzz is about wood stoves. I will post next week to let you all know how things worked out. Happy Holidays!!

 

[Stevebass4]

did the inspector not remove the surround to have a look? it's only two screws - you should remove it to have a look and see if there is a block off plate as mentioned in the other thread

 

[stoveguy2esw]

. I am a realtor by trade and have come across many many inspectors and this one is a peach!

interesting note, being a realtor you know the value now of a heat source such as a woodstove or insert, i'd suggest though after your experience that you might think about including your newfound knowlege in learning about the appliances you encounter in homes you might market in the future, maybe even to the point of having your new best friend (your inspector) take a peek at properties with these units to ensure that they are up to code, think of how nice a selling point an inspected hearth appliance would be over "it comes with a woodstove" just a thought that popped up when i saw you were a realtor.

 

[Dix]

interesting note, being a realtor you know the value now of a heat source such as a woodstove or insert, i’d suggest though after your experience that you might think about including your newfound knowlege in learning about the appliances you encounter in homes you might market in the future, maybe even to the point of having your new best friend (your inspector) take a peek at properties with these units to ensure that they are up to code, think of how nice a selling point an inspected hearth appliance would be over “it comes with a woodstove” just a thought that popped up when i saw you were a realtor.

The wave of the future, I believe.

Mike? Where were you when I was single? ;-P , LOL !

 

[jadm]

Great job in hanging in there! And following through with action! You are way ahead of the game now. You are going to be happy and relieved once you have some real heat pouring out of your insert!

 

[begreen]

Score another one for the hearth.com team. I knew it was the stub dumping into the too large flue. I'm happy that they want to make it good. You have some nice heating coming soon.

 

[Hogwildz]

I may catch some shat for this, but............
Its good you have this being corrected, its good the installer is going to come back and install full liner. I think you will be amazed at the difference. And cleaning will be much easier also.
That is a good price on the liner. Make sure its the correct wood fuel stainless steel liner. I'd suggest the installer is trying to make it right, you may want to think about kicking him something for the full liner labor to install?
Unless he charged you a lot for the original stub in, then don't. But sounds like the guy is trying to make things right. Do what you feel is right.
Congrats.

 

[begreen]

No crap dealt here for good advice and karma bro. You brought up a good point.

 

[karri0n]

Good to hear you are getting everything taken care of. Good that you came here as well, you are now armed with the knowledge of exactly what to look for when he makes it back to the house.

 

[kflorence]

Just thought I would check in to see if any replys from my last post had any questions or statements. Yes, I will keep the wood stove experience in mind when I am out marketing and selling property. I will definately be pushing this site to anyone who needs assistance with wood stoves. No, the inspector never took off the surround. The moment he came into my home I showed him the stove and all of my complaints. He felt very upset for me and at the point he said " what would you like for me to do?" I said "fail it" and he said "you got it". I thought at the time I needed ammo with my credit card company should the installer give me a hard time. In the end he did not. I showed him (inspector) the manual and that was all he needed. He agreed that shortcuts should not be made in anyway and has heard many horror stories with wood stove installers. However, I dont think my installer was not trying to rip me off. He was very concerned that I was unhappy. He was also concerned the city failed it. He did not want the largest city in the state to fine him or red flag future permits pulled by his company. He told me I should have called him when I first realized the stove would not heat. I understand why he did not put in the liner, he said he was trying to save me money since he felt I did not need it. He now knows the set up wont work and will do what it needs. I have every intention on paying him for the labor. I was never looking for the cheap way out. My only complaint was that I did not want to have to pay for labor twice if you can understand that. Not sure how much I should give him though. $100 per hour, $200 per hour? I paid him $550 (labor) for the 1st install and they (2) where here about 4 hours. From all the comments on this site he seems a little cheap now that I think about it. He has been a mason for 26 years, is that qualified? His company has a clean record with the BBB also. I have every confidence he will make right.

 

[ansehnlich1]

I may catch some shat for this, but............
Its good you have this being corrected, its good the installer is going to come back and install full liner. I think you will be amazed at the difference. And cleaning will be much easier also.
That is a good price on the liner. Make sure its the correct wood fuel stainless steel liner. I'd suggest the installer is trying to make it right, you may want to think about kicking him something for the full liner labor to install?
Unless he charged you a lot for the original stub in, then don't. But sounds like the guy is trying to make things right. Do what you feel is right.
Congrats.

Hog, I'm not trying to start a fight here, but I gotta weigh in. I'm having trouble understanding how a wood stove installer can think it's ok to run a 6 inch stub into a 12x12 clay chimney and think that's sufficient. If he's any kind of businessman and is offered payment for coming back to do it RIGHT this time he'd refuse any offer of cash for his trouble.

We're talking 28 inches or so for a cross sectional on that 6 inch liner dumping into a 12x12, which is 144 inches cross section, wazzzzup with that? Not even CLOSE to code. So we have 1 of 2 things happening here....

a. the installer does not have a clue what code is
b. the installer flat out ignored code


I wouldn't pay him a penny in labor my self.

 

[80s Burnout]

Did you tell them about the advice provided on Hearth.com? If so, just keep in mind that they may now be reading everything in these two threads. I've seen that happen on other forums and it can get ugly. Not that it should matter but just an FYI.

 

[karri0n]

Did you tell them about the advice provided on Hearth.com? If so, just keep in mind that they may now be reading everything in these two threads. I've seen that happen on other forums and it can get ugly. Not that it should matter but just an FYI.

Very good thing to point out, but if you notice, Kflorence hasn't said anything negative about the installer, just that she's upset the stove isn't running correctly. It sounds like he honestly might have thought the draft wouldn't be an issue. If you read my post in the previous thread, I expressed the same sentiment that interior chimneys tend to get really good draft, and he might have been trying to save her $350 in materials and $100+ in labor.

It can seem from her story that the guy might be trying to shaft her, especially with the fact that the internet is relatively impersonal, but she doesn't think so at all. This can only really be told by the interaction she has had personally with the installer, and she seems happy and confident that he isn't trying to scam her. If you were speaking to the man in person, would you tell him he's a worthless piece of %^#$% and say his permit should be revoked? If so, maybe you should have your attitude checked. Most people aren't really that rude, and realize that even experienced people make mistakes or err in judgment from time to time. If he shows up and makes everything right, then I think we owe it to him to give him a break.

If, on the other hand, there really is no block off plate or insulation in there, after she asked him about this, then there's an issue.


Side note - Kflorence, you should mention to him that you think there's quite a bit of draft around the surround of the fireplace and demonstrate with a match if need be. Can you "feel" a draft if you put your hand there?