Upgrading old Franklin to Jotul Oslo - Many Questions

[senorFrog]

Hi,

I have been lurking here for sometime and just registered the other day. After quite a bit of research here, I ordered a Joutl Oslo a few days ago. It will replace an existing old Franklin style woodstove. I am replacing the stove to help with the oil bill this year.

Some History: The existing stove came with the house and I have been using it for three years now. Last year, based on chimmney sweeps recommendation for safety, I had the single wall stove pipe converted to double wall and a short stainless steel chimmney pipe installed to connect to masonry chimmney. I was not happy with the installer but that is another story.

Here is a description w/dimensions for use with pics...

The wood stove connects to 48 inch vertical run of 8 inch double wall stove pipe (supervent I think), which connects to a 90 degree elbow, which connects to 34 inch horizontal run of double wall stove pipe which connects to stove pipe adaptor. Stove pipe adaptor connects to another 20 inch horizontal run of stainless steel insulated chimmney pipe (supervent) model SC/SPR type HT. This is two inch clearance. Also, it is threaded, so the stove pipe adaptor "screws" into it. The chimmney pipe connects to the masonry chimmney which is lined with 8 x 8 inch clay liner. It has been cleaned, inspected and in good condition.

As mentioned I have ordered a Jotul Oslo. Here are my questions:

1) I need to convert the 8 inch stove pipe to 6 inch double wall stive pipe. I would like to go with Duravent. Will the Durvent stove pipe adaptor be able to connect to the supervent chimmney pipe?

2) Could you help identify the chimmney pipe? It's has a tag on it but no model number. Tag says Supervent Model SC/SPR Type HT. Another tag on it says Model FC.

3) I would like to use two 45's instead of a 90. I do not have an existing draft problem. I do get occasional downdrafts when it is very windy during a North Easter. I understand the Oslo is finicky when it comes to draft. I think this MAY help.

4) Could anyone identify the old Franklin? Is it worth anything? No identifying marks or tags anywhere on it. I've searched all over it.

5) How much better, in general will an Oslo perform vs old Franklin? I have to constantly feed it wood. It warms us up well, but only the room it's in and only when fire is burning hot.

Any other advice or comments appreciated. I am just a homeowner and have no knowledge of woodstoves other than lurking here.

I should mention I'm in MASS. Room stove is in is about 20 x 20. Cathederal ceiling, four skylights, ceiling fan, and about 8 casement windows. Also, it's on a slab. The rest of the house is about two stories, 2000 square feet and on infinished basement.

Thank you,

SF

 

[senorFrog]

One more pic...

 

[begreen]

My understanding is that one needs to stick with the same pipe company throughout the installation unless it's crimped single-wall. I would try out the install just as it is with an 8x6 adapter to connect the stove. If it works well, then leave it be. How tall is the chimney? Maybe it just needs a better cap? I had excellent draft with the 3CB, even needed a draft damper, but on extremely windy days (>45mph.), I would sometimes get a little smoke pushed back when loading. This can be reduced by opening the door a crack for a few seconds before fully opening to load wood.

The Oslo has a great reputation and in general I haven't found Jotuls that fussy about draft. It should radically outperform the current stove, both in heat output and reduced wood consumption. The Franklin may have decorative value, but I wouldn't pay more than $50 for it.

(PS: didn't I meet you somewhere south of Cancun? ;-))

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Hi,

I have been lurking here for sometime and just registered the other day. After quite a bit of research here, I ordered a Joutl Oslo a few days ago. It will replace an existing old Franklin style woodstove. I am replacing the stove to help with the oil bill this year.

Some History: The existing stove came with the house and I have been using it for three years now. Last year, based on chimmney sweeps recommendation for safety, I had the single wall stove pipe converted to double wall and a short stainless steel chimmney pipe installed to connect to masonry chimmney. I was not happy with the installer but that is another story.

Here is a description w/dimensions for use with pics...

The wood stove connects to 48 inch vertical run of 8 inch double wall stove pipe (supervent I think), which connects to a 90 degree elbow, which connects to 34 inch horizontal run of double wall stove pipe which connects to stove pipe adaptor. Stove pipe adaptor connects to another 20 inch horizontal run of stainless steel insulated chimmney pipe (supervent) model SC/SPR type HT. This is two inch clearance. Also, it is threaded, so the stove pipe adaptor "screws" into it. The chimmney pipe connects to the masonry chimmney which is lined with 8 x 8 inch clay liner. It has been cleaned, inspected and in good condition.

As mentioned I have ordered a Jotul Oslo. Here are my questions:

1) I need to convert the 8 inch stove pipe to 6 inch double wall stive pipe. I would like to go with Duravent. Will the Durvent stove pipe adaptor be able to connect to the supervent chimmney pipe?

2) Could you help identify the chimmney pipe? It's has a tag on it but no model number. Tag says Supervent Model SC/SPR Type HT. Another tag on it says Model FC.

3) I would like to use two 45's instead of a 90. I do not have an existing draft problem. I do get occasional downdrafts when it is very windy during a North Easter. I understand the Oslo is finicky when it comes to draft. I think this MAY help.

4) Could anyone identify the old Franklin? Is it worth anything? No identifying marks or tags anywhere on it. I've searched all over it.

5) How much better, in general will an Oslo perform vs old Franklin? I have to constantly feed it wood. It warms us up well, but only the room it's in and only when fire is burning hot.

Any other advice or comments appreciated. I am just a homeowner and have no knowledge of woodstoves other than lurking here.

I should mention I'm in MASS. Room stove is in is about 20 x 20. Cathederal ceiling, four skylights, ceiling fan, and about 8 casement windows. Also, it's on a slab. The rest of the house is about two stories, 2000 square feet and on infinished basement.

Thank you,

SF

1) the connector should work
3) thats alot of horizontal chimney in that system, any way of shorting it up? All new stoves will draft worse then that franklin, you might have issues with a 4'+ horizontal, in tha case 2 45's might or might not help.
5) the olse is going to burn alot more clean, and put out more heat for less wood consumption, its far more efficient then what you have. You should be pleased.

Are you going to run the Oslo on 8 inch chimney?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

My understanding is that one needs to stick with the same pipe company throughout the installation unless it's crimped single-wall. I would try out the install just as it is with an 8x6 adapter to connect the stove. If it works well, then leave it be. How tall is the chimney? Maybe it just needs a better cap? I had excellent draft with the 3CB, even needed a draft damper, but on extremely windy days (>45mph.), I would sometimes get a little smoke pushed back when loading. This can be reduced by opening the door a crack for a few seconds before fully opening to load wood.

The Oslo has a great reputation and in general I haven't found Jotuls that fussy about draft. It should radically outperform the current stove, both in heat output and reduced wood consumption. The Franklin may have decorative value, but I wouldn't pay more than $50 for it.

(PS: didn't I meet you somewhere south of Cancun? ;-))

I dont think that double wall connector has to be used within the same chimney system, i could be wrong, but there is a lot of Metal fab DWB out there on simpson systems.. doesnt make it right. Im shure that will be confirmed here at some point.

 

[senorFrog]

Thank you all for your replies! I really appreciate it!

3) thats alot of horizontal chimney in that system, any way of shorting it up? All new stoves will draft worse then that franklin, you might have issues with a 4'+ horizontal, in tha case 2 45's might or might not help.

Are you going to run the Oslo on 8 inch chimney?

I plan to eliminate the long horizontal run on the double wall stove pipe by going with two 45's. From stove about 1 foot vertical connecting to 45 degree elbow, then about 3 foot long at 45 degree angle, then another 45 degree elbow, a six inch horizontal run connecting to stove pipe adapter which connect to chimmney pipe. Chimmney pipe is angled upward slightly.

I ordered the six inch oslo. Didn't know there was an 8 inch version.

Another question I had, my dealer say's it's an 2006 Oslo. Is there a way to tell?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

No change that i know of, except color choices.
The oslo does not come in 8", but if you hook it up to a 8" chimeny, with the bit of funkyness with the horizontal, you might have start up issues. Nothing to worry about untill you try it. The stove is designed to work on a 6 inch chimney, it will work on a 8, but the 8 might cause some draft issues. Draft is established by heat in the chimney, the stove is designed to loose x amount of heat to run a 6 inch flue. The area of a 6 inch pipe is 28.28 sq in the area of a 8" is 50.24 sq in. You can see its almost twice the volume that the stove is designed to displace. The 45's might be a MUST in this application.

 

[senorFrog]

How tall is the chimney? Maybe it just needs a better cap?

Chimmney isn't that tall. From where the chimmney pipe connects into it to the top of the chimmney is about 12 feet. I added two feet myself last year and that helped a lot. It's not exterior wall, inside house then pops through roof.

It's not the draft so much as the wind. We're on a lake and during a northeaster the wind really wips up with the long fetch accross the lake. We get backdrafts WITH the gusts of the wind. That is, during storm I hear wind howl and see backpuff. Only occasional. Not constant.

PS - No chimmney cap. I thought that would help and put one one. It made things significantly worse so I removed it. I might try a wind beater.

The Oslo has a great reputation and in general I haven't found Jotuls that fussy about draft. It should radically outperform the current stove, both in heat output and reduced wood consumption.

Good to hear. I hope I can move the warm air into the rest of the house. I am considering installing two thru-wall fans in adjacent wall to help with this. This room is an addition and hangs off the rest of the house.

(PS: didn't I meet you somewhere south of Cancun? ;-))

 

[webbie]

Of course, if it turns out that you have to add a couple of feet to the chimney for draft and to get above wind currents, check out:
http://www.extendaflue.com

The Franklin is probably worth little or nothing - most were made in taiwan, although some (Atlanta brand) may have been made here.

Being as someone would need to invest a lot into a chimney and hearth - probably a giveaway or to the scrap yard.

With a new stove, technique will be important. Make certain to run the stove quite hot when you start it up in order to warm the pipe and the chimney.

 

[senorFrog]

Draft is established by heat in the chimney, the stove is designed to loose x amount of heat to run a 6 inch flue. The area of a 6 inch pipe is 28.28 sq in the area of a 8" is 50.24 sq in. You can see its almost twice the volume that the stove is designed to displace. The 45's might be a MUST in this application.

I'm def converting to six inch pipe. I plan on putting the six-to-eight inch converter right at the chimmney adaptor.

 

[begreen]

Chimney is short, so doing all you can to aid draft is a good plan. You're in good hands here. MSG, is a Jotul expert.

 

[senorFrog]

Of course, if it turns out that you have to add a couple of feet to the chimney for draft and to get above wind currents, check out:
http://www.extendaflue.com

The Franklin is probably worth little or nothing - most were made in taiwan, although some (Atlanta brand) may have been made here.

Being as someone would need to invest a lot into a chimney and hearth - probably a giveaway or to the scrap yard.

With a new stove, technique will be important. Make certain to run the stove quite hot when you start it up in order to warm the pipe and the chimney.

Thanks! Seeing as you're in MASS do you knwo anyone near the South Shore who carries Duravent Double Wall Stove Pipe? I looked at their website and called a few dealers listed near my zip. Haven't found one who carries it for woodstoves yet, only gas.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Draft is established by heat in the chimney, the stove is designed to loose x amount of heat to run a 6 inch flue. The area of a 6 inch pipe is 28.28 sq in the area of a 8" is 50.24 sq in. You can see its almost twice the volume that the stove is designed to displace. The 45's might be a MUST in this application.

I'm def converting to six inch pipe. I plan on putting the six-to-eight inch converter right at the chimmney adaptor.

Yes, thats what i figured, and thats not the best scinearo, my last post was written thinking thats what you were doing. Expecially with a short chimney. I will guess that you will have draft issues. Try it and see, if you have a hard time lighting the stove, and if it smokes alot, you will know what you need to do. The extenda flue is a great idea.

 

[senorFrog]

Chimney is short, so doing all you can to aid draft is a good plan. You're in good hands here. MSG, is an Jotul expert.

Yeh, I've read many of hist posts when doing research re manufacturers and found them very helpful. The review section of this site was quite helpful as well.

 

[senorFrog]

The extenda flue is a great idea.

Thanks, seems good but big $$$. I might just ad another two feet and a wind beater if I have a problem AFTER first converting to two 45's.

Thanks again for taking the time to review my situation.

 

[elkimmeg]

Ok how to break this easy to you: You need 7' more chimney to meet minium manufactures standards (10 ' more would be better) 14' plus 5' more for the 90 or 2 45 degree elbows. Because your stove is surounded by 3 walls, you have to deal with an Alcove installation requiring double all double wall connector pipe. Your current horizontal run does not appear to be pitched code min 1/4" per ft. using 2 45 will take care of the pitch issue. There is language concerning what is required to a masonry connector. Requiring 12 " brick and masonry around the flue connector that would require 32" square masonry are regardless in using a thimble. IT may not be correct for the combustiable v grove pine boards. You location appears to be tight to obtaining safe to combustiables. Brick facing in front of combustiables without the air space is a 1/3 reduction but no reduction can be greater that 12" Those brick wall do not offer all that much protection when combustiables exist behind them. Again an almost any stove replacing that old franklin would be safer. You can use an 8" flue but alcove instalation requires all double wall connector pipe. I think you may have to scrap all your existing pipe and use listed 6" double wall all from the same manufacturer including the wall pass threw boot

 

[senorFrog]

Ok how to break this easy to you: You need 7' more chimney to meet minium manufactures standards (10 ' more would be better) 14' plus 5' more for the 90 or 2 45 degree elbows. Because your stove is surounded by 3 walls, you have to deal with an Alcove installation requiring double all double wall connector pipe. Your current horizontal run does not appear to be pitched code min 1/4" per ft. using 2 45 will take care of the pitch issue. There is language concerning what is required to a masonry connector. Requiring 12 " brick and masonry around the flue connector that would require 32" square masonry are regardless in using a thimble. IT may not be correct for the combustiable v grove pine boards. You location appears to be tight to obtaining safe to combustiables. Brick facing in front of combustiables without the air space is a 1/3 reduction but no reduction can be greater that 12" Those brick wall do not offer all that much protection when combustiables exist behind them. Again an almost any stove replacing that old franklin would be safer. You can use an 8" flue but alcove instalation requires all double wall connector pipe. I think you may have to scrap all your existing pipe and use listed 6" double wall all from the same manufacturer including the wall pass threw boot

Elk, thanks, I was hoping you'd respond too, as I've read many of you posts as a lurker.

I plan on scraping all 8 inch double wall and going to six inch double wall. I was hoping to save the chimmney pipe, because that was expensive.

Re the code I didn't quite follow you re the 32 inch masonry around the chimmney connector (thimble?). Are you saying I have to scrap the connector and go with something else? If so what would that something else be? It says right on the thimble 2 inch clearance to combustibles.

Also, re adding height to the chimmney, It's actually only 9 feet from where the chimmney pipe enters the masonry to the top of the flue. Would I better off just scrapping this and converting to some kind of stainless job? I'm not made of money, and the stove set me back big time. Should I just add another 10 feet of masonry? I'd be worried about support and it tumbling. This is off a flat roof straight up, so nothing to brace it to.

 

[ChrisN]

Hi Senor, I have an Oslo and love it, but your set-up raises a few warning bells: The Oslo has both front and a side loading door. the front door is a real pain in the neck. Ash will always form along the bottom of the door and every time you open it, a messy pile will deposit on your ash-catcher. Cleaing it up after every door opening would really be a pain. Most people I've talked to hardly ever open the front doors and load using the side door. Looks like that wouldn't work for you. Also, Elk could very well be onto something concerning your clearances, (wise people listen to Elk!). I'm at work (shhh don't tell) and don't have my owner's manual with me, but since the side door opens, I'm pretty sure there is a considerable clearance requirment for that side. Considering your set-up, have you thought about a top-loading model?

Good luck, Chris

 

[webbie]

Elk is right about chimney height in the ideal world - but the real proof in this case is in the pudding - you sound astute enough to figure out whether the stove acts correctly once it is in and running. We have all seen 25 foot chimneys that have terrible draft and 10 foot chimneys that work to beat the band.

As far as the wall pass-through, that is a critical thing - at first glance, the pic looks like it might be one of those insulated insul-flues or something like that. Main thing is that 2" insulated chimney is NOT 2" clearance when used as thimble for chimney connection through wall.

see: https://www.hearth.com/what/passing.html

I think between that article and your Jotul manual you'll have most of the basics you need.

 

[begreen]

Good points Chris. This is one of the main reasons why I reluctantly gave up on installing the Oslo. Great stove, but the side door needs to be locked shut in corner installs. Same for alcove installs I believe.

 

[webbie]

Again, RE; Thimble - if this is a thimble MADE for use to connect through a wall to a masonry chimney (and it does look like it from the pic)...then, yes, the 2" or whatever is listed on the label is OK.

BUT, if your connector is plain old generic class A chimney (which says 2" on the pipe) - note that this 2" is only for when the pipe is used as part of a complete metal class A chimney installation. Solid pack insulated chimney CAN be used as a wall pass though, but you need to have 9" (or whatever updated code requires) around it. In other words, this is sort of an "off-label" use so the regular 2" does not apply.

 

[senorFrog]

I'm at work (shhh don't tell) and don't have my owner's manual with me, but since the side door opens, I'm pretty sure there is a considerable clearance requirment for that side. Considering your set-up, have you thought about a top-loading model?
Good luck, Chris

That was one of my big concerns. I went to the store and measured the door up wide open. Believe it or not I have plenty of room. I'll just have to kinda angle the wood in when I feed it from the side.

Thanks for sharing your experiences with the Oslo. I hope it works out well for me.

SF

 

[senorFrog]

Again, RE; Thimble - if this is a thimble MADE for use to connect through a wall to a masonry chimney (and it does look like it from the pic)...then, yes, the 2" or whatever is listed on the label is OK.

BUT, if your connector is plain old generic class A chimney (which says 2" on the pipe) - note that this 2" is only for when the pipe is used as part of a complete metal class A chimney installation. Solid pack insulated chimney CAN be used as a wall pass though, but you need to have 9" (or whatever updated code requires) around it. In other words, this is sort of an "off-label" use so the regular 2" does not apply.

I'll have to check what the thimble actually is. I cannot find a model number anywhere on it. It is supervent and made in Canada. I had a chimmney guy install it. He also did the double wall. I brought him in to fix specific code violations reported to me by my chimmney sweep (who is semi-retired and only does sweeps now). So I am assuming it's to code. If not I'll have a real problem with the installer. I think that piece alone was like $200.

I'll call him and let you know.

Thanks everyone for chiming in.

 

[elkimmeg]

According to your manual you need 59" between the brick side walls just to fit that stove in.
16" side loading door required by code and can not be reduced the stove is about 29" wide and 14 " required fron the othe side wall opposite the door wall Total 59" I counted your bricks and motar joints and its going to be a real close call there

 

[elkimmeg]

Is there any way of opting for a differnt stove? Say a top loader? Did you know the VC Encore and Defiant uses 8" connector pipe and are top loading? You might be able to re -use that 8" double wall pipe and be able to situate such a stove better in your location?
Harman also makes a top loader