UPS or generator?
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The generator is shipping!, and the TrippLite as well!
In a few weeks... big battery.
Thanks everybody for your thoughts & suggestions.
Anybody looking for one of the larger APC UPS units needs to print out this Staples 40% off coupon for in-store before Nov. 2, 2013.
http://www.staples.com/coupons
Coupon code: 85320
http://www.staples.com/coupons
Coupon code: 85320
I have my computer and pellet stove running off my APC 1400 UPS .....the ignitor is the biggest draw...when the power goes off just turn up the thermostat so it doesn't shut off...if you get too hot turn down the stove.
My Honda generator will run practically forever as I have it hooked up to a 5 gal boat type gas tank....lots of links on the net as to how to do this.
My Honda generator will run practically forever as I have it hooked up to a 5 gal boat type gas tank....lots of links on the net as to how to do this.
BKInsert
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dlehneman
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Did some testing today on my stove so I can plan a backup system better and thought other people might benefit from the info.
Stove is an Englander PAH, 300w igniter, 250cfm room blower, factory electrical usage rating is 3.8a (456w @120v)
For those who want all the details, my voltage is 121 consistently at the outlet for the stove. Measurements were taken with the Kill-A-Watt meter plugged into a Tripp-Lite surge protector.
Start up- hit a max of 400w for a split second when room blower kicked in and igniter must have still been on, but averaged between 300-370w during ignition. This includes the combustion blower, the auger motor and igniter.
Running- (I just measured this at 3 different heat/blower combos to give an example of low/ medium/ high power use) This stove has both feed and blower settings that range from 1-9. The wattage range is auger off/ auger on.
2/2- 75w-100w
5/5- 108w-136w
9/9-165w-190w
Running it on 1/1 was roughly 10w less (so 65w-90w)
Also checked VA since that's a common UPS measurement, here are those numbers:
2/2- 171-231 VA
5/5- 209-269 VA
9/9- 278-338 VA
In the shoulder seasons I rarely need anything over 2/2 so it's very low power requirements. 9/9 would cook me out of the house on all but the absolute coldest days (like -5 below or more) and I almost never use anything over 7/7.
Hope that helps!
Stove is an Englander PAH, 300w igniter, 250cfm room blower, factory electrical usage rating is 3.8a (456w @120v)
For those who want all the details, my voltage is 121 consistently at the outlet for the stove. Measurements were taken with the Kill-A-Watt meter plugged into a Tripp-Lite surge protector.
Start up- hit a max of 400w for a split second when room blower kicked in and igniter must have still been on, but averaged between 300-370w during ignition. This includes the combustion blower, the auger motor and igniter.
Running- (I just measured this at 3 different heat/blower combos to give an example of low/ medium/ high power use) This stove has both feed and blower settings that range from 1-9. The wattage range is auger off/ auger on.
2/2- 75w-100w
5/5- 108w-136w
9/9-165w-190w
Running it on 1/1 was roughly 10w less (so 65w-90w)
Also checked VA since that's a common UPS measurement, here are those numbers:
2/2- 171-231 VA
5/5- 209-269 VA
9/9- 278-338 VA
In the shoulder seasons I rarely need anything over 2/2 so it's very low power requirements. 9/9 would cook me out of the house on all but the absolute coldest days (like -5 below or more) and I almost never use anything over 7/7.
Hope that helps!
Those are great numbers & info!
After my Kill-A-Watt shows up I'll be posting my results as well.
I'm especially interested in the low-speed numbers, as I will probably never run on anything else.
After my Kill-A-Watt shows up I'll be posting my results as well.
I'm especially interested in the low-speed numbers, as I will probably never run on anything else.
I have a 2000W Generac genset and it's been pretty good. I hadn't used it much since I bought it in 2011 but it really came in handy this summer as I had several building projects going on at our race track. The only thing it wouldn't do is allow me to use my small 110V wire feed welder… just not enough power.. I must have 60-70 hours on it right now… fuel economy is good. It's a tad bit loud but not bad… I plan on attaching another muffler to the factory installed one to quiet it down a bit.
The Honda's are very good but I try to stay away from their products… I used to haul out of one of their warehouses and I've seen some shenanigans going on with country of origin labels and quick fixes on damaged engines. The comparable Yamaha generators seem to be top notch, too.
So many of these units are generic Chi-Com products with name changes and minor changes to cosmetics. No one makes a small "Made in USA" generators anymore...
The Honda's are very good but I try to stay away from their products… I used to haul out of one of their warehouses and I've seen some shenanigans going on with country of origin labels and quick fixes on damaged engines. The comparable Yamaha generators seem to be top notch, too.
So many of these units are generic Chi-Com products with name changes and minor changes to cosmetics. No one makes a small "Made in USA" generators anymore...
Glad you've had good luck with the Generac! I know their large units are top notch.
I've noticed a NUMBER of different brands that essentially look the same... same frame, different colors.
Wish me luck with my refurb unit.
I've noticed a NUMBER of different brands that essentially look the same... same frame, different colors.
Wish me luck with my refurb unit.
Re: need for sine wave inverters: Most computers, flat screen TVs, etc., (what they often describe as "sensitive electronics") run fine on a MODIFIED sine wave inverter, which is what most generators not labeled as true or pure sine wave are. Many pellet stoves AND UPS DEVICES are much more sensitive, though, and will NOT run or recharge on these generators. Thus, those relying on a non-sine wave gennie may have a nasty surprise come the first big power outage, as could some who rely on recharging their UPS off the gennie. The true sine wave gennies / inverters will be no problem.
I run my Quad Mt Vernon AE through a 2200VA APC brand UPS at all times (originally used as a server backup supply) and it is designed to both put out a pure sine wave and recharge off a modified sine wave generator. It powers the stove for 30-45 minutes until I start the gennie but the battery in it is old. However, we had two lesser quality UPS devices on computers that refused to even function when the same generator was on. We could, however, run the computers plugged into them just fine on the same gennie if we disconnected the UPS devices and just plugged them into the circuit. Needless to say, we ended up ditching those UPS units as they were only good for preserving data long enough to shut down the computers, and we average 3-4 days/year without power as we're at the end of a transmission line and are one of the last 7 houses on it (so often last on the power co. list). But this is a common and known problem with both pellet stoves and UPS devices, and I note it hear in hopes no one gets surprised this winter.
My solution going into this winter is an AGM deep cycle battery for the Mt Vernon (they are designed to run with one attached as a backup, and it will run for about two days on it in manual mode), and I'm considering a couple of add'l deep cycle batteries on a 2000 watt sine wave inverter for my old Whitfield Quest and some add'l overnight needs such as internet, security, TV and fridge (under 1000 watts total). That would allow me to shut down the gennie overnight, saving fuel and noise. Will keep everyone posted as / if this is implemented.
I run my Quad Mt Vernon AE through a 2200VA APC brand UPS at all times (originally used as a server backup supply) and it is designed to both put out a pure sine wave and recharge off a modified sine wave generator. It powers the stove for 30-45 minutes until I start the gennie but the battery in it is old. However, we had two lesser quality UPS devices on computers that refused to even function when the same generator was on. We could, however, run the computers plugged into them just fine on the same gennie if we disconnected the UPS devices and just plugged them into the circuit. Needless to say, we ended up ditching those UPS units as they were only good for preserving data long enough to shut down the computers, and we average 3-4 days/year without power as we're at the end of a transmission line and are one of the last 7 houses on it (so often last on the power co. list). But this is a common and known problem with both pellet stoves and UPS devices, and I note it hear in hopes no one gets surprised this winter.
My solution going into this winter is an AGM deep cycle battery for the Mt Vernon (they are designed to run with one attached as a backup, and it will run for about two days on it in manual mode), and I'm considering a couple of add'l deep cycle batteries on a 2000 watt sine wave inverter for my old Whitfield Quest and some add'l overnight needs such as internet, security, TV and fridge (under 1000 watts total). That would allow me to shut down the gennie overnight, saving fuel and noise. Will keep everyone posted as / if this is implemented.
All very good info.
Keep in mind, the Champion 2000i generator is a "pure sine wave" inverter generator, and the TrippLite inverter/charger is a Pulse Width Modulation Sine, not "modified". PWM Sine is a few steps "above" modified.
Looking forward to the results of your experiments! Keep us all posted!
Many are refurbs for cosmetic or other small defects… my Englander was a refurb.Glad you've had good luck with the Generac! I know their large units are top notch.
I've noticed a NUMBER of different brands that essentially look the same... same frame, different colors.
Wish me luck with my refurb unit.
So...
My Kill-A-Watt came in today & I hooked it up to the CAB50. On low it pulls 94 watts. Strange thing... It reports 120 Volts, 94 Watts, 1.8 Amps. At 94 watts, shouldn't I be less than an amp? I was surprised how low the power factor was (.41).
The Tripp-Lite is here, the inverter-generator arrived, and now I'm just waiting on my big deep-cycle battery. Fun project! The battery terminals ANL 150 amp fuses & fuse holder should be here soon too. Now to scrounge some 2AWG cabling....
My Kill-A-Watt came in today & I hooked it up to the CAB50. On low it pulls 94 watts. Strange thing... It reports 120 Volts, 94 Watts, 1.8 Amps. At 94 watts, shouldn't I be less than an amp? I was surprised how low the power factor was (.41).
The Tripp-Lite is here, the inverter-generator arrived, and now I'm just waiting on my big deep-cycle battery.
Fun project! The battery terminals ANL 150 amp fuses & fuse holder should be here soon too. Now to scrounge some 2AWG cabling....
watts = volts * amps
perhaps the time of the readings was different between the 2 pulls, for auger on vs auger off?
perhaps the time of the readings was different between the 2 pulls, for auger on vs auger off?
Watts/Volts = Amps. Except my Kill-A-Watt isn't saying that! 
I switched back & forth between amp readings and watt readings many times.... 1.8 Amps, 92 to 94 watts.
very odd. I don't get it.
I switched back & forth between amp readings and watt readings many times.... 1.8 Amps, 92 to 94 watts.
very odd. I don't get it.
Watts=Volts * Amps * PowerFactor
PowerFactor will very from Stove brand to Brand.
In a pellet stove the powerfacter is probably mostly Inductive because its mostly Fans motors.
A powerfactor is usually a 0.XXX number...
PowerFactor will very from Stove brand to Brand.
In a pellet stove the powerfacter is probably mostly Inductive because its mostly Fans motors.
A powerfactor is usually a 0.XXX number...
Watts/Volts = Amps. Except my Kill-A-Watt isn't saying that!
I switched back & forth between amp readings and watt readings many times.... 1.8 Amps, 92 to 94 watts.
very odd. I don't get it.
For DC you would be right.... You are measuring AC right. For ac it is amps = watts /(power factor*volts)
Okeedoke. The power factor is .41
I'm not used to seeing any power factors on single phase equipment... at work we always use 3-phase, and often have power factor correction capacitor banks.
So next question: When I hook this up to my TrippLite inverter and deep cycle battery should I calculate runtime using the 94 watts, or the 1.8 amps?
I'm not used to seeing any power factors on single phase equipment... at work we always use 3-phase, and often have power factor correction capacitor banks.
So next question: When I hook this up to my TrippLite inverter and deep cycle battery should I calculate runtime using the 94 watts, or the 1.8 amps?
No ..for AC and for Figuring for Watts...
its Watts=Volts * amps * PowerFactor
for VA its Volts * amps.
To Figure for amps it would be as you stated...
Isn't that what is said...
To figure watts you multiply both sides of my equation by the power factor and the voltage.
I think we called out the same equation.
I used amps but then you have to add in the inefficiency of converting from doc to ac through the inverter....
The inverter will tell you that.
If you know your amp draw and your amp hours you know you only want to use 50% of that at least that is where I try to keep my batteries for my trolling motor and that should give you a good life.... Obviously an emergency is an emergency.......
The inverter will tell you that.
If you know your amp draw and your amp hours you know you only want to use 50% of that at least that is where I try to keep my batteries for my trolling motor and that should give you a good life.... Obviously an emergency is an emergency.......
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