Use of Creosote Remover Sprays in Pellet Stoves?

[Val]

Hello,
I have a 2006 Harman Accentra, as well as an older P38. Just a general question...I am wondering if it would be any benefit to spray the firebox once in a while with creosote remover spray (either regular or stage 2 type) before lighting the stove. I wonder if these sprays can help dissolve any carbon or creosote deposits in the firebox and flue pipes to make cleaning the stove easier and cleaning the pipes easier. I know people say that pellet stoves dont create creosote but I think thats not true. I am wondering if these additives can help increase the burn temperature for a short time to compensate for older bags of pellets or even cheaper brands of pellets once in a while? I mean to rid extra unseen moisture from an old pellet or a cheap pellet? I'm not saying I want to buy cheap pellets, but sometimes the pellet manufacturers batches vary. Sometimes brands say premium hardwood, but aren't as good. Also, could a person ever add any of the granular creosote additive to the burn pot? I doubt it would work well to mix any in the hopper. Thanks.

 

[kinsmanstoves]

You better not have creosote in your stoves or pipe. If so you have serious problems.

Eric

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

+1

You should not have 'sote if you set the stove up and operate it correctly.

Just like you shouldn't have 'sote in your smoke dragon.

 

[DobieMom]

You better not have creosote in your stoves or pipe. If so you have serious problems.

Eric

Eric - would you elaborate on this a bit please? When I had my service done last year the tech said I had creosote on my heat exchangers and on the inside sides of my stove ?? I had them back for 'smoke smell' twice, last time they caulked a spot - none since but they assured me the installation was correct. Thanks!

 

[DirtyDave]

can you not get creosote buildup if your flame is lazy and poor venting and flamefire too low for extended periods??

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

can you not get creosote buildup if your flame is lazy and poor venting and flamefire too low for extended periods??

Yes but a lazy fire and poor venting are both improper operation and setup issues.

If the air/fuel mixture is correct all 'sote volatiles exit the venting.

 

[MarkF48]

How about pellet quality affecting production of creosote?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Not burning them hot enough, incorrect air/fuel mixture.

Now if the imbeciles making the pellets are putting crap in them then you likely have more than just possible 'sote issues to worry about.

Once again as long as the flue temperature is kept high enough all of the 'sote volatilities exit the system. Just like with a smoke dragon.

What nails the smoke dragon runners is that the fire is intentionally burned at an incorrect air/fuel mixture in order to burn for long periods unattended.

 

[kinsmanstoves]

Sorry a little busy. Incorrect air/fuel mixture will make creosote. This can be caused by an airleak, vent blockage, bad installation (to long of vent), and a dirt stove with blockage inside the firebox and air passages. Any creosote with a pellet stove is bad and needs attention. I have been to one popular stove manufacturer's sponsored training that told us their stove will make creosote when running on the low setting for extended periods of time. I will not sell that brand due to this being a safety issue. Not all stoves are created equal and it does no one any good to sell "junk".

 

[Val]

Sorry a little busy. Incorrect air/fuel mixture will make creosote. This can be caused by an airleak, vent blockage, bad installation (to long of vent), and a dirt stove with blockage inside the firebox and air passages. Any creosote with a pellet stove is bad and needs attention. I have been to one popular stove manufacturer's sponsored training that told us their stove will make creosote when running on the low setting for extended periods of time. I will not sell that brand due to this being a safety issue. Not all stoves are created equal and it does no one any good to sell "junk".

Of all these things...I can only imagine the typical pellet stove person having a poorly routed vent pipe. As for the other mentioned causes: If there is an air leak, won't that cause stoves not to run anyway because of the pressure safety switch? What do you mean by blocked vent? Ash blockage, perhaps?- Especially at the stove outlet? It doesnt seem like dirt would be that big of a problem if the stove mechanisms are feeding smooth and the air holes in the burn pot are clean. When they talk about air/fuel mixture, I say gee wiz this stove isnt a carburator...Isnt air/fuel mixture really how big the flame is which relates to feed rate setting and stove draft? I dont know, just guessing for now. I wish somebody would write a Chilton manual on typical pellet stove operation.

 

[Val]

Not burning them hot enough, incorrect air/fuel mixture.

Now if the imbeciles making the pellets are putting crap in them then you likely have more than just possible 'sote issues to worry about.

Once again as long as the flue temperature is kept high enough all of the 'sote volatilities exit the system. Just like with a smoke dragon.

What nails the smoke dragon runners is that the fire is intentionally burned at an incorrect air/fuel mixture in order to burn for long periods unattended.

What is a smoke dragon?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

What is a smoke dragon?

Smoke dragon an older wood stove perhaps air tight that allowed the owner to choke the air supply to the point that a fire would last a very long time, the primary results of burning that way is copious smoke and plenty of 'sote.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Air = one of the three things needed to support a fire.

Fuel = what you are burning and the second of the three things needed to support a fire.

Air/Fuel mixture the amount of air made available per unit weight of fuel.

More fuel than the air available = a dirty rich burn.

More air available than needed by the fuel = a lean fast burn.

Think of the burn pot as a carburetor.

 

[DexterDay]

Air = one of the three things needed to support a fire.

Fuel = what you are burning and the second of the three things needed to support a fire.

Air/Fuel mixture the amount of air made available per unit weight of fuel.

More fuel than the air available = a dirty rich burn.

More air available than needed by the fuel = a lean fast burn.

Think of the burn pot as a carburetor.

Very well said Smokey..

Of all these things...I can only imagine the typical pellet stove person having a poorly routed vent pipe. As for the other mentioned causes: If there is an air leak, won't that cause stoves not to run anyway because of the pressure safety switch? What do you mean by blocked vent? Ash blockage, perhaps?- Especially at the stove outlet? It doesnt seem like dirt would be that big of a problem if the stove mechanisms are feeding smooth and the air holes in the burn pot are clean. When they talk about air/fuel mixture, I say gee wiz this stove isnt a carburator...Isnt air/fuel mixture really how big the flame is which relates to feed rate setting and stove draft? I dont know, just guessing for now. I wish somebody would write a Chilton manual on typical pellet stove operation.

You would be surprised how many vents are installed incorrectly or have an EVL way over the limit. As for an air leak, its possible to have a leak and still have enough negative pressure to keep the vac switch satisfied. So now you have a burn pot by-pass and are taking away combuation air (decreased efficiency) and may cause a very dirty burn and pellets to possibly build up in the pot.... The fuel to air ratio is vitally important to the efficient operation of a pellet stove. Without everything happening the way it should, its very possible to see Creosote build up within the stove.

Every year there is normally a few good examples. Nasty stuff. Keep the stove clean, maintained, and a vent system that is up to par for what its designed to do (i.e.- 3" vent EVL = 15' max / dont go over), and there should be zero chance for Sote....

 

[kinsmanstoves]

"Every year there is normally a few good examples. Nasty stuff. Keep the stove clean, maintained, and a vent system that is up to par for what its designed to do (i.e.- 3" vent EVL = 15' max / dont go over), and there should be zero chance for Sote...." Kennis

NOTE 15' EVL is not 15' of total pipe. Please read your owners manual.

 

[DexterDay]

"Every year there is normally a few good examples. Nasty stuff. Keep the stove clean, maintained, and a vent system that is up to par for what its designed to do (i.e.- 3" vent EVL = 15' max / dont go over), and there should be zero chance for Sote...." Kennis

NOTE 15' EVL is not 15' of total pipe. Please read your owners manual.

I would hope they would RTFM.. But. I get what your saying. I did not mean 15' (length) of pipe. Although its still referred to as 15 ft EVL. (90°=5', 45°=2.5', 1 ft horz=1', 1 ft vert=.5').

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

"Every year there is normally a few good examples. Nasty stuff. Keep the stove clean, maintained, and a vent system that is up to par for what its designed to do (i.e.- 3" vent EVL = 15' max / dont go over), and there should be zero chance for Sote...." Kennis

NOTE 15' EVL is not 15' of total pipe. Please read your owners manual.

This is an extremely important thing to do because some stoves have even stricter vent requirements less than the nominal EVL of 15. Pushing this is a recipe for all kinds of trouble.

 

[DirtyDave]

wait here I thought 5'vertical is = 1' and 1' horizontal was =to 5' ?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

wait here I thought 5'vertical is = 1' and 1' horizontal was =to 5' ?

1 foot vertical = 0.5 EVL
1 foot horizontal = 1.0 EVL
90 degree elbow or tee in the vertical position = 5.0 EVL
45 degree elbow = 2.5 or 3.0 EVL depending upon the vent manufacturer's information (has to do with the lengths of the input/output portions) in the vertical position.
The elbows or tees in the horizontal position double the EVL of the piece from its vertical position amount.

 

[Bill P. Stovers]

Val.
I would.
Spray Creosote Remover works great on my Contour pellet stove.

When the stove is cold spray the fire pot, firebox and behind any removable plates.
Now run the stove. When it gets to 500 degrees the soot will loosen and blow out the stove and pipes.
Mine runs like a new stove. I wish I had known about it sooner.

 

[gfreek]

I use the creosote remover spray on my P38+ auger, after a cleaning with wire brush, just before I fire it up. If it helps dunno, I just do it...

 

[David_Jr]

Val.
I would.
Spray Creosote Remover works great on my Contour pellet stove.

When the stove is cold spray the fire pot, firebox and behind any removable plates.
Now run the stove. When it gets to 500 degrees the soot will loosen and blow out the stove and pipes.
Mine runs like a new stove. I wish I had known about it sooner.

Bill, can you please tell me what spray you are using? New member can't PM. 1998 Harman P61 has had creosote buildup for last 10 years no matter what I do. Have had several "stove guys" out no one can seem to find a problem. Many different brands of pellets nothing seems to cure. Would like to try your spray. Thanks

 

[Bill P. Stovers]

Bill, can you please tell me what spray you are using? New member can't PM. 1998 Harman P61 has had creosote buildup for last 10 years no matter what I do. Have had several "stove guys" out no one can seem to find a problem. Many different brands of pellets nothing seems to cure. Would like to try your spray. Thanks

David_Jr;

The spray I use is the Rutland Creosote Remover spray 1 quart bottle.
Local Homedepot did carry it several years ago for $8.00. Local Lowes does not carry it either.
Had to go to my local Quadra-Fire pellet stove store to get it. They do charge around $20.00.

Bill

 

[taytowers]

I have been to one popular stove manufacturer's sponsored training that told us their stove will make creosote when running on the low setting for extended periods of time.

Do you know if the Quadrifire Castile Insert creates creosote on the aluminum heat exchanger when burned on low for extended periods of time? If you have a build up... will this burn off if the Castile is burned on high?

 

[David_Jr]

David_Jr;

The spray I use is the Rutland Creosote Remover spray 1 quart bottle.
Local Homedepot did carry it several years ago for $8.00. Local Lowes does not carry it either.
Had to go to my local Quadra-Fire pellet stove store to get it. They do charge around $20.00.

Bill

Thanks so much