VC History, my version...

[Jackfre]

Over the years I have looked at VC as a case history in how to and how not to do things. I have never been directly affiliated with VC in my business. This is my view only but it goes back a ways, to the mid 70's. I had a stove shop back in the late 70's. I did not have access to VC as I didn't have the right set-up, let alone the right budget. There was a competitor up valley that had VC and they did really well. The product was excellent and worked really well. I did stoves for a couple years and then took the business into the mechanical contracting side of things. I lost touch with the industry through the early to mid-80's and came back to it as a manuf rep in New England. I came to know the VC dealers across the area and the VC line was just strong, strong, strong. The thing is though, I came to realize, the strength, while the product was very good, really came through based upon the knowledge of the dedicated VC dealers and their employees. Along about the early 90's VC decided it was time to expand distribution and went into the Big Boxes. From experience I can say without questions that this is a really touchy time for a manuf and their dealer base. This was especially so with the VC dealers and their reaction to this "betrayal" was, very professionally, to not get mad, but to get even. The dealers had big investments in VC. The VC brand was so strong that they could not drop the line. That said, at the point of sale in a dealers showroom the knowledgeable dealer can almost determine the product sold in up to around 80% of the cases, and VC sales began to be converted. I think that over time that percentage was very high simply because these people were dedicated to the business and had a vary high degree of competence which really told in a face to face presentation. As well the competing stove manuf saw blood in the water and their sales increased. I would make a sales call on these VC folks and just listen to them talk about the past products, parts, methods, fixes, etc and just marvel at them, and it was consistent across the territory. I knew my business, but I was regularly taken aback by how detailed and capable they were. That passionate support is what VC lost and to my mind what reduced the company to just another brand, and with the ownership changes the relationships continued to weaken.

I do wish the new owners well and hope they can bring the brand back to greatness. I also hope my 2550 Encore holds up.

 

[begreen]

The big piece missing from that history is the advent of the EPA phase 2 regs and the decisions VC made in retrofitting their stoves to meet them. This is where they made some critically bad decisions. The original VCs were tough, reliable and for the time, efficient heaters. The new generation with soft refractory combustors became a dealer warranty nightmare. That had a very strong influence on dealer conversions. It was a matter of survival. We loved our original Resolute, but wouldn't consider a modern VC when we were looking again for a stove. They still are some of the nicest looking stoves, but expensive to maintain.

Also missing are several sales along the way to owners that were just cashing in on the brand.

 

[Simonkenton]

What year of manufacture is your 2550 Encore?

I got interested in wood stoves in the seventies, and Vermont Castings was the King of the Hill. Beautiful stoves and well made. Well, in the seventies I messed around with cheapo Franklin stoves, and a couple of Sotz barrel stove kits, never could afford a VC. Burned a lot of wood, though.
But, in 1988 I built a nice log house with a great room with a cathedral ceiling, and bought a Vermont Castings Resolute. What a great stove! This was in central Georgia, not exactly Minnesota, but it does get pretty cold down there. I burned that stove every day it was below 60 degrees and it was a delight. I had a pickup truck and 2 chain saws, so, it was no problem getting wood. Light it up with dry wood, burn all night with green wood. If I wanted to, on Christmas eve, burned it with the door open and the screen in place, it was a little fireplace.
I even got my mom to buy the same model stove. She still has it, and she loves it!

So sad for me to see that VC quality has gone downhill.
When I built my current house, a log cabin in the NC mountains, in 1996, I wanted another Vermont Castings. Didn't have the internet then, but the big VC dealer in north Atlanta told me that the quality was off. He recommended that I get the Waterford instead. He told me that the VC were all catalytic and had lots of problems. I did get a Waterford and it is a decent stove, fire box is too small though.
Next year I am going to build a big addition on my house and I need a big, bad stove. Auf Wiedersehen to Vermont Castings. If you spend 30 minutes on this forum reviewing VC you would never buy one.
Instead I will buy a Jotul Oslo.

Things change, and they change again. Hopefully Vermont Castings will get organized and begin making quality wood stoves again.

 

[webby3650]

If VC would completly abandon the rear combustion design and take a new direction they might survive. Even the old "durable" stoves required a lot of money to maintain! They just need to take a totally new approach! I really feel like they could win a bunch of people back over!

 

[cybex]

The big piece missing from that history is the advent of the EPA phase 2 regs and the decisions VC made in retrofitting their stoves to meet them. This is where they made some critically bad decisions. The original VCs were tough, reliable and for the time, efficient heaters. The new generation with soft refractory combustors became a dealer warranty nightmare. That had a very strong influence on dealer conversions. It was a matter of survival. We loved our original Resolute, but wouldn't consider a modern VC when we were looking again for a stove. They still are some of the nicest looking stoves, but expensive to maintain.

Also missing are several sales along the way to owners that were just cashing in on the brand.

I concur. I have a 2550 and 1450. Know all to well of the soft refractory material used. The old Intriped, no problems.

 

[Charles1981]

I believe with the new 2n1 systems they have done away with the soft refractory material...but I could be wrong.

Hope so! But I agree the rear combustion chamber and down draft seems like such an odd design that requires too many variables to be just right in order to achieve consistent combustion.

 

[BIGDADDY]

The big piece missing from that history is the advent of the EPA phase 2 regs and the decisions VC made in retrofitting their stoves to meet them. This is where they made some critically bad decisions. The original VCs were tough, reliable and for the time, efficient heaters. The new generation with soft refractory combustors became a dealer warranty nightmare. That had a very strong influence on dealer conversions. It was a matter of survival. We loved our original Resolute, but wouldn't consider a modern VC when we were looking again for a stove. They still are some of the nicest looking stoves, but expensive to maintain.

Also missing are several sales along the way to owners that were just cashing in on the brand.

So when did the retrofitting of VC stoves you're talking about take place? In the 1980's?
I actually doubt your other remark about so called new generation with soft refractory combustors.

 

[branchburner]

I actually doubt your other remark about so called new generation with soft refractory combustors.

You doubt they became a warranty nightmare? That they did seems more of an historical fact than an opinion.

VC complied with new EPA regs first by retrofitting with cat technology, then by developing downdraft technology. Both types of stoves used soft refractory prone to decay, and both required a higher level of attention to flue setup and correct operation (dry wood, sufficient temps, etc.).

With respect to both warranty issues and ease of use, the burn-tube technology used by other manufacturers was superior to how VC implemented its other two types of burn technology. People are apt to be happier if their stove 1) heats with ease; 2) doesn't fall apart; and 3) doesn't glow.

To make matters worse, VC later shortened their warranty length, and when the company changed hands they failed to honor the warranty at all. I think it is fair to say the new company would have been more likely to honor warranty claims if that soft refractory had not created a warranty nightmare for customers, dealers and the company itself.

 

[Jags]

I actually doubt your other remark about so called new generation with soft refractory combustors.

No reason to doubt it - it was a pretty accurate summation of a well known problem.

 

[DougA]

I just sold my VC Resolute that was bought in the early '80s and one of the 'good' VC models. I spent an hour explaining to the buyer the differences in stoves, that this was a non-cat and VC had changed hands many times and some of their stoves were great, some were awful. The guy left a deposit and was to p/u yesterday.

He called around to find installers prior to p/u and got two answers:
One store/installer told him that he was buying a cat stove and VC didn't make non-cat back then. It was a bad stove and don't buy it.
One installer said VC was one of the worst stoves and not to buy it.
The only VC dealer in the region was closed for holidays and I knew ahead of time that they won't install or inspect anything not bought from them.

He then spent another half hour on the phone with me going over all the problems. My answer kept coming back to "I explained all of this to you carefully, the ad was very clear - these guys are idiots."
In the end, he decided to lose his deposit since he had no idea who was telling the truth. He wanted a 'guarantee' that once installed, it would pass inspection. Ya right . My only answer was that if it was installed to code and inspected by a good inspector, it would pass. However, I don't know of a 'good' inspector. The two I have experience with both made serious errors.

So VC's history cost me a sale (for now) and I'm sure will continue to plague VC forever. It only takes a few lemons and refusal to honor warranties for people to get a bad image. It's too bad because as begreen and anyone who bought one knows, my original non-cat Resolute is a great stove at the time it was made and will last forever, given good care. I know the original owners of VC had passion for their product and took customer service seriously, similar to what Woodstock does now. I hope current stove makers learn a lesson from the VC saga.

 

[Highbeam]

I wouldn't let my momma buy a VC.

 

[kennyp2339]

I'm not trying to blow smoke here, but the very said OP is why I went with Blaze King, I literally live on the other side of the country but seeing the posts and support other BK owners got from BKVP steered me to that brand, I felt that the other brands while very nice, were just that, brands.

 

[Blackjack Dan]

Does the current production VC Defiant flex-burn have the same problems as the earlier models? Needing to update my 30 year old wood burner to something more efficient the specs on the stove fit my set up.

 

[kennyp2339]

I'm not sure with that model but I've read some good reviews on vc for the past 2 years, but I also heard they were bought out again recently, I don't know how true that is though

 

[Valhalla]

Had an early 1981 VC Defiant... loved it for 15 years. Sold the house with it.
Had a new 2008 VC Encore NC, and hated it for 2 years.
Sold the Encore, installed a new Jotul Oslo 500 in it's place, loving it for 5 years!

 

[begreen]

Does the current production VC Defiant flex-burn have the same problems as the earlier models? Needing to update my 30 year old wood burner to something more efficient the specs on the stove fit my set up.

It's still too early to know how the current line is going to stand up. Reviews have been mixed so far.

 

[Simonkenton]

Thanks for the report, Valhalla. I will begin construction in April, and will buy the Jotul Oslo in August, can't wait.

 

[31 bertram]

I purchased a 2550 many years ago, the dealer said it was the "best of the best" it took me years to become efficient at the operation, just couldn't afford to sell it so I had no other alternative but to keep it. Fast Forward two years ago I went thru an "almost" total rebuild and it was a nightmare. But I love the stove and know what to look for if I have problems, and when she's running right, there's nothing like it. I love to watch folks reaction when they come for a visit on a cold damp evening. Would I buy another VC?.....I think not.

 

[Charles1981]

Happy with my 2n1 encore. But scared its gunna crap sooner than I expected. Or that I could have had superior results with a different product. But 3 years in no turning back at this point. Gunna burn it till it don't work no more. It already paid for itself at the end of last year so... I can't complain too much.