VC Vigilant Question

[remkel]

Good evening everyone.

Question regarding my VC Vigilant stove. Once I get the stove up to heat and close the damper I am seeing some signifcant temperature drop in my flue pipe. Stove top thermometer will read anywhere from 450-550 while the stove pipe will read 200-210. Is this common with the vigilant? Also getting a lot of creosote buildup in my chimney (approx. 28-30' exterior run) and thought the low pipe temperature may be contributing.

Any suggestions.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Good evening everyone.

Question regarding my VC Vigilant stove. Once I get the stove up to heat and close the damper I am seeing some signifcant temperature drop in my flue pipe. Stove top thermometer will read anywhere from 450-550 while the stove pipe will read 200-210. Is this common with the vigilant? Also getting a lot of creosote buildup in my chimney (approx. 28-30' exterior run) and thought the low pipe temperature may be contributing.

Any suggestions.

Is this stove pipe surface temp or is it internal temps?

If it is external, that is about normal. My external pipe temps are usually around 250-300 degrees measured by an IR thermometer. An old vigilant will create more creosote than a new stove, especially if you do not have dry wood.

 

[mikepinto65]

When I had my Vigilant the only way to burn "clean" was to have the stove cranking and external pipe readings of 400-500. If I didnt have those temp on the pipe I wasnt getting any rumble out of the secondary combustion chamber, and have a smoldering smokey fire. How dry is your wood? I know mine liked very dry wood while set in the dampened mode, and also liked to be run HOT.

 

[Battenkiller]

I'm finding I have the same problem with mine.

It's an older stove, but it seemed to be only lightly burned by the previous owner. Almost all of the joints were fresh looking with no gaps apparent in the cement. Gaskets all passed "the test", almost ripping the dollar bill on the right door. If it's pulling in air anywhere, it's not enough to deflect smoke from a burning incense stick.

I started the season with almost a full cord of three year old mixed hardwood that came with the stove and some 1-2 year old white ash I had on hand, so marginal wood was not the issue. I get a real good draft with my 25'+ interior masonry chimney, even with the stove cold. Best way to describe my burns until recently are flue temps on the cool side (<250º) , stove top temps on the high side (>650º). In updraft mode, she burns just about right, but I'm really trying to get at the sweet spot with the dampered-down burn.

After a trip to the local VC gurus, they recommended that I further decrease the primary air to slow down the draft. They said that would keep more heat in the stove and not dilute the flue gases with too much cool air. Things have improved for me, with flue temps dropping from about 550º at the time I first shut the damper down to about 3-350º before stabilizing there. The problem is learning how to set the thermostat to the right point where it doesn't close off the primary air entirely once the temps climb.

Recently, I've been experimenting with smaller loads, and things are getting even better, even though I'm now into my "marginal" wood. So for me, what is working best is closing down the primary air to about 1/4" to 3/8" opening at the bottom of the intake flap and leaving the secondary opening all the way open. Once the wood is mostly coals (about two hours with a half-filled box), I open the primary about half way and close the secondary half way. The thermostat doesn't seem to open it up as much as it needs on my stove, or is sluggish at any rate. I ordered a new one which may work better.

The only thing different with mine is that I'm not getting a huge amount of creosote like I expected. I pulled the pipe after about two cord got burned in it and it didn't look bad. Most of the buildup was way up high, and only noticeable in the corners (square-tiled flue). From day one I've been running it super hot (6-650º) for about an hour in the morning, both to clean out the fuzz from the night before and to get the flue nice and warm. That what the VC guys said to do if I couldn't keep the flue temps about 400º.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Bottom line is that it is an older stove. It is going to smoke more than a new stove, the air controls are hit or miss at times, and it eats wood at a faster rate. I can't complain, for $300-$400 the cast iron bastard can still keep a room at over 80 degrees even on the coldest days.

I'll probably have the stove for 2-4 more winters before I swap it out for a newer stove (dear god, I just want to make it through a 12 month period without shopping for a stove).

 

[Battenkiller]

When I had my Vigilant the only way to burn "clean" was to have the stove cranking and external pipe readings of 400-500. If I didnt have those temp on the pipe I wasnt getting any rumble out of the secondary combustion chamber, and have a smoldering smokey fire. How dry is your wood? I know mine liked very dry wood while set in the dampened mode, and also liked to be run HOT.

Well, mine definitely like to be run hot, which is fine by me. Even dampered down, I've had a spot on the left door hit over 1000 degrees on my IR thermometer, and I routinely get readings in the high 700s and even 800s. My stove's in the basement and it has to heat up the whole house from down there. Does a damn fine job for a $300 stove. Warmest we've been in 20 years and only once in the entire season did we use the electric heat for about one day, just to bring it up to that magic 72º range.

So Mike, having used both the Vig and the F 500, how much less wood do you use with the Jotul compared to the VC. At my local Jotul dealer, they said I'd use 1/3 less wood with the Oslo than with the Vigilant, but when I posed the question to the repair guy who's been using and fixing VCs for 30 years, he said, "Well, if you're using 7 cord with the Vigilant, you might only need 6 1/2 cord with the Oslo." Who's telling the truth and who's stretching it?



BBAR, even though my flue temps aren't up as high as I was told to keep them, I very rarely see any smoke come out the top of the chimney. Even with flue temps only in the 225-250º range, I've gone outside and watched for at least 5 minutes on several occasions and only seen the sporadic faint plume of white, and never, ever dark or black smoke. That certainly wasn't always the case with my last stove.

 

[BrowningBAR]

When I had my Vigilant the only way to burn "clean" was to have the stove cranking and external pipe readings of 400-500. If I didnt have those temp on the pipe I wasnt getting any rumble out of the secondary combustion chamber, and have a smoldering smokey fire. How dry is your wood? I know mine liked very dry wood while set in the dampened mode, and also liked to be run HOT.

Well, mine definitely like to be run hot, which is fine by me. Even dampered down, I've had a spot on the left door hit over 1000 degrees on my IR thermometer, and I routinely get readings in the high 700s and even 800s. My stove's in the basement and it has to heat up the whole house from down there. Does a damn fine job for a $300 stove. Warmest we've been in 20 years and only once in the entire season did we use the electric heat for about one day, just to bring it up to that magic 72º range.

So Mike, having used both the Vig and the F 500, how much less wood do you use with the Jotul compared to the VC. At my local Jotul dealer, they said I'd use 1/3 less wood with the Oslo than with the Vigilant, but when I posed the question to the repair guy who's been using and fixing VCs for 30 years, he said, "Well, if you're using 7 cord with the Vigilant, you might only need 6 1/2 cord with the Oslo." Who's telling the truth and who's stretching it?



BBAR, even though my flue temps aren't up as high as I was told to keep them, I very rarely see any smoke come out the top of the chimney. Even with flue temps only in the 225-250º range, I've gone outside and watched for at least 5 minutes on several occasions and only seen the sporadic faint plume of white, and never, ever dark or black smoke. That certainly wasn't always the case with my last stove.

I would say if you are burning 7 cords with the Vigilant you would burn about 5 with a new cat stove.

 

[remkel]

Thanks for all the information everyone.

Mine also likes to run hot, even shutting down the draft. Mine is in the basement and heats over 200o sq. ft above ( not including the 100 sq. ft in the basement).

The problem may also be the result of a significant down draft when the stove is not running. Thinking this might hold smoke in the chimney a little longer.

I also have a "corner" in my chimney (three flue chimney). this is where I see the most buildup. Trying the old can a day trick this time to see if it makes a difference.

Hard to part with the stove, but this might have to be the final result. The stove was my Pepere's (1978) and heats the house like a charm, but practicality may have to take the place of sentimentality. Clenaing the flue once amonth is just getting old quickly.

 

[remkel]

Good evening everyone.

Question regarding my VC Vigilant stove. Once I get the stove up to heat and close the damper I am seeing some signifcant temperature drop in my flue pipe. Stove top thermometer will read anywhere from 450-550 while the stove pipe will read 200-210. Is this common with the vigilant? Also getting a lot of creosote buildup in my chimney (approx. 28-30' exterior run) and thought the low pipe temperature may be contributing.

Any suggestions.

Is this stove pipe surface temp or is it internal temps?

If it is external, that is about normal. My external pipe temps are usually around 250-300 degrees measured by an IR thermometer. An old vigilant will create more creosote than a new stove, especially if you do not have dry wood.

The temp measurement is external. Just cleaned the chimney and am getting external readings of 225-245 now.

Thanks for the reassuring comments.

 

[mikepinto65]

When I had my Vigilant the only way to burn "clean" was to have the stove cranking and external pipe readings of 400-500. If I didnt have those temp on the pipe I wasnt getting any rumble out of the secondary combustion chamber, and have a smoldering smokey fire. How dry is your wood? I know mine liked very dry wood while set in the dampened mode, and also liked to be run HOT.

Well, mine definitely like to be run hot, which is fine by me. Even dampered down, I've had a spot on the left door hit over 1000 degrees on my IR thermometer, and I routinely get readings in the high 700s and even 800s. My stove's in the basement and it has to heat up the whole house from down there. Does a damn fine job for a $300 stove. Warmest we've been in 20 years and only once in the entire season did we use the electric heat for about one day, just to bring it up to that magic 72º range.

So Mike, having used both the Vig and the F 500, how much less wood do you use with the Jotul compared to the VC. At my local Jotul dealer, they said I'd use 1/3 less wood with the Oslo than with the Vigilant, but when I posed the question to the repair guy who's been using and fixing VCs for 30 years, he said, "Well, if you're using 7 cord with the Vigilant, you might only need 6 1/2 cord with the Oslo." Who's telling the truth and who's stretching it?



BBAR, even though my flue temps aren't up as high as I was told to keep them, I very rarely see any smoke come out the top of the chimney. Even with flue temps only in the 225-250º range, I've gone outside and watched for at least 5 minutes on several occasions and only seen the sporadic faint plume of white, and never, ever dark or black smoke. That certainly wasn't always the case with my last stove.

Sorry, didnt see this until today.

Its hard to say how much less wood i've used.....I only had the Vigilant for one season before switching stoves. I can tell you that I can get a lot more heat out of three logs with the Oslo than I could with the Vigilant, and for a longer time. Also I was averaging 7-8 hours with decent coals in the morning with the Vigilant opposed to 8-10 hours with the Oslo.

I really liked the Vigilant after getting the hang of it, and loved the heat it threw (although i did find it to be temperamental and somewhat dangerous sometimes). I really wished it was EPA certified, and had glass doors (mine were the solid doors) that could stay clean. It was tricky to operate and required a lot of attention in order to get it operating at its peak efficiency. The Oslo takes care of everything that was missing and than some. It is super easy to operate, providing you have normal seasoned wood ( I havnt needed to have "super dry" wood some oslo owners claim to need), and a real pleasure to look at burning and just sitting cold.