Vegetable oil instead of sifting... it really works!!

[Stovensen]

In the last couple of seasons I've had soo many shut downs due to accumulated sawdust in the bottom of the hopper that I even considered replacing my Quest Plus with a wood stove. It's a bit depressing to come home to an icecold house time after time... and the sight I saw EVERY time I had shoveled all the pellets out of the hopper, was that of the picture below.
Then I remembered a tip I got from an experienced pellet burner: Try to pour a little vegetable oil over the pellets when the hopper is nearly empty. This way the sawdust will cake up and be made transportable for the auger screw.
A month ago I started my experiments. Result: A tremendous success!! No more shoveling pellets and vacuuming off the hopper.
Note: Only a very small amount of oil is necessary ( one to two tablespoons ) and it must be used preventive in this way: When the hopper is nearly empty, I sweep the remaining pellets and the sawdust in a small pile towards the intake and pour the oil over it. Hmm, a brush soaked in oil may be even better to ensure a limited dose. That will be my next experiment.
Caution: Too much oil should be avoided. The rubber gasket on the end plate and the auger bushing on my stove are not 100% tight, and one time, when having added too much oil, I noticed that the oil would leak out under the auger inside the stove. Also, I could imagine that it may be a fire hazard if the drop chute is all wet of oil... the fire might spread to the hopper in the worst case!!
The oil I use is rapeseed oil/canola oil and it costs the same as diesel oil around here: About $2 for one litre.
BTW, some years ago Shell sold some Super Premium pellets here in Denmark that had been impregnated with rapeseed oil during the pressing at the mill, I tell you, these pellets are the most energy intensive pellets I have EVER burnt!! They don't make them anymore. They were expensive and perhaps they were too good?
But hey, maybe bad pellets could be turned into premium pellets be brushing/spraying them with some rapeseed oil? Hmm, that will be my next experiment. I'll let you know how it turns out

Important discovery: Vegetable oil does NOT disintegrate/destroy the pellets turning them into sawdust like water does in a couple of minutes.
This phenomena is puzzling me, and I think the explanation has to do with the nanostructure of woodfibre: It was created/made to enable the living tree to transport water and minerals from the root to the branches, leaves and fruits.

 

[DemonGT]

not sure i could get myself to buy "**** oil" ....but good info nonetheless

 

[chrisasst]

Would cooking spray do the same thing for you? Spraying may help control the amount you use.

 

[movemaine]

hmmm...so using oil instead of sifting fines? With the oil trick, you have to constantly monitor your stove (more than you already do), but with sifting fines you aren't stuck like that...

 

[SwineFlue]

not sure i could get myself to buy "**** oil" ....but good info nonetheless

Yeah, not a good name... it's also called rapeseed oil or canola oil.

 

[Stovensen]

not sure i could get myself to buy "**** oil"

Ahem, no it sounds a bit scary at the first glance, admitted. You know, writing this post I had to consult my danish/english dictionary in order to translate the danish word 'raps-olie' to english, and when I saw it came up with the word '**** oil'...
Hmm, maybe rapeseed oil is more correct english? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Here in Denmark the farmers grow 'raps' large scale, and in may the landscape with the blooming 'raps' fields can be very beautiful. see photo:

 

[SwineFlue]

Hmm, maybe rapeseed oil is more correct english? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Here in Denmark the farmers grow 'raps' large scale, and in may the landscape with the blooming 'raps' fields can be very beautiful. see photo:

You are not wrong, it goes by both names (Canola is a Canadian-bred variety). And it looks nice too!

 

[Stovensen]

Would cooking spray do the same thing for you? Spraying may help control the amount you use.

I've tried one like that on the photo and it's my impression that it takes too much time, since it only gives a very small amount on each spray. A simple paint brush may be the best way to ensure the right dose, and also much cheaper than the cooking oil spray.

 

[Stovensen]

With the oil trick, you have to constantly monitor your stove (more than you already do), but with sifting fines you aren't stuck like that...

Sifting the pellets has all these obvious disadvantages...

1: You must have the extra space for it where you store your pellets.

2: The sifting device must be constructed ( by yourself, it takes time and money ).

3: You have to handle ALL the bags an extra time.

4: This operation releases dust in the room.

5: Valuable energy in the sawdust is lost to the vac.

All these disadvantages are non existent when using oil!!

The oil trick does NOT require any extra monitoring of the stove. The oil is added when the hopper is getting topped up, anyway
Being a real pellet burner, however, I must admit that I do open the hopper lid now and then to level the pellets... you know how it is.

 

[allFIREDup]

I'm not convinced that the oil will be as effective as claimed in binding the fines together and expell it through the auger system. I would also be concerned about a possible hopper fire

 

[Stovensen]

I'm not convinced that the oil will be as effective as claimed in binding the fines together and expell it through the auger system. I would also be concerned about a possible hopper fire

The oil does make the sawdust transportable for the auger, I can assure you that.
Now, as for the 'possible hopper fire' ... well, it's obvious that overdosing should be avoided. This must be repeated.
During my initial tests, I poured too much on the pellets a couple of times, but the dropchute never got wet of oil. The sawdust and the pellets must have absorbed most of the excessive oil after all.
But of course, if the oil trick proves to be a serious alternative to sifting, then a worst case test must be performed, just to explore what really happens when/if the drop chute is soaking in oil... is it possible for the fire to spread from the burn pot to the hopper?? I don't know yet, but I will make the test one of these days. I have a large fire extinguisher ( powder, 6 kilogram ), so it's just a matter of overdosing with oil, and then... sit around and wait
I promise to return with my results.

 

[gfreek]

Interesting idea......

 

[smwilliamson]

View attachment 85320

Readers make note that there is evidence of a hopper fire in this machine. I can tell by the charred discoloration of the metal around the feed tube.

There are many bad implications for using oil in yer hopper:

1. Oil of any kind in flammable...not just combustible
2. Many hoppers are not sealed to the room air, such as this Quest and in the event of a hopper fire, the flames could spread out of the machine
3. The oil will eventually seep into the bushing and cause binding of the wood fiber in places where it shouldn't be anyway
4. This practice of using flammable additives is retarded and makes you a very lazy stove user if not outright ignorant to the proper and safe operation

BE SAFE PEOPLE. DON'T BE A DUMBASS RIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS AND BECOME HOMELESS OR DEAD.

 

[MSmith66]

In the last couple of seasons I've had soo many shut downs due to accumulated sawdust in the bottom of the hopper that I even considered replacing my Quest Plus with a wood stove. It's a bit depressing to come home to an icecold house time after time... and the sight I saw EVERY time I had shoveled all the pellets out of the hopper, was that of the picture below.
Then I remembered a tip I got from an experienced pellet burner: Try to pour a little vegetable oil over the pellets when the hopper is nearly empty. This way the sawdust will cake up and be made transportable for the auger screw.
A month ago I started my experiments. Result: A tremendous success!! No more shoveling pellets and vacuuming off the hopper.
Note: Only a very small amount of oil is necessary ( one to two tablespoons ) and it must be used preventive in this way: When the hopper is nearly empty, I sweep the remaining pellets and the sawdust in a small pile towards the intake and pour the oil over it. Hmm, a brush soaked in oil may be even better to ensure a limited dose. That will be my next experiment.
Caution: Too much oil should be avoided. The rubber gasket on the end plate and the auger bushing on my stove are not 100% tight, and one time, when having added too much oil, I noticed that the oil would leak out under the auger inside the stove. Also, I could imagine that it may be a fire hazard if the drop chute is all wet of oil... the fire might spread to the hopper in the worst case!!
The oil I use is rapeseed oil/canola oil and it costs the same as diesel oil around here: About $2 for one litre.
BTW, some years ago Shell sold some Super Premium pellets here in Denmark that had been impregnated with rapeseed oil during the pressing at the mill, I tell you, these pellets are the most energy intensive pellets I have EVER burnt!! They don't make them anymore. They were expensive and perhaps they were too good?
But hey, maybe bad pellets could be turned into premium pellets be brushing/spraying them with some rapeseed oil? Hmm, that will be my next experiment. I'll let you know how it turns out

Important discovery: Vegetable oil does NOT disintegrate/destroy the pellets turning them into sawdust like water does in a couple of minutes.
This phenomena is puzzling me, and I think the explanation has to do with the nanostructure of woodfibre: It was created/made to enable the living tree to transport water and minerals from the root to the branches, leaves and fruits.
View attachment 85320

By the looks of the hopper, that oil maybe why you have a charred look of a hopper fire. I would not be using anything in the hopper except wood pellets.

 

[MSmith66]

Readers make note that there is evidence of a hopper fire in this machine. I can tell by the charred discoloration of the metal around the feed tube.

There are many bad implications for using oil in yer hopper:

1. Oil of any kind in flammable...not just combustible
2. Many hoppers are not sealed to the room air, such as this Quest and in the event of a hopper fire, the flames could spread out of the machine
3. The oil will eventually seep into the bushing and cause binding of the wood fiber in places where it shouldn't be anyway
4. This practice of using flammable additives is retarded and makes you a very lazy stove user if not outright ignorant to the proper and safe operation

BE SAFE PEOPLE. DON'T BE A DUMBASS RIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS AND BECOME HOMELESS OR DEAD.

Did not see your post until after i replied.

 

[DOLLARBILL]

can I assume that you have lots of fines after many bags ? If so why not just vaccum the fines more frequently may save a house fire !

 

[jrsdws]

I think I'll just stick with sifting when I get really bad pellets and vacuuming the fines from the hopper every now and again.

 

[Czech]

Yes, the easiest route is to just plan to vac the hopper when you clean the stove. That said, I've used vege oil before in my crib back when I was burning corn, mainly to keep the dust down. I never thought it was a fire hazard or I would not have done it, the amount was very small and vege oil simply is not all that combustible unless at very high temps (i.e. I don't think you'll get a trail of fire up the chute). I'd be more worried about gunking up the works even more by pouring this in the bottom of the hopper, vege oil tends to do this. Yes, this stove has had some fire where it should not have.

 

[MCPO]

The use of oil doesn`t sound good to me but having to sift fines doesn`t either.
One of the reasons I quit burning wood was because of the multiple handling of it. Having to sift pellets has to be a PIA and an extra step I don`t want to be bothered with.
These Lignetics are one of the dustiest ,lots of fines, than I`ve yet used , but thankfully neither of my stoves have a problem with em. I`d replace the stove(s) if it couldn`t handle the fines.

I should add that the amount of fines in the picture look to be severe. Maybe you should switch to another pellet brand.

 

[urkiddin]

The use of oil doesn`t sound good to me but having to sift fines doesn`t either.
One of the reasons I quit burning wood was because of the multiple handling of it. Having to sift pellets has to be a PIA and an extra step I don`t want to be bothered with.
These Lignetics are one of the dustiest ,lots of fines, than I`ve yet used , but thankfully neither of my stoves have a problem with em. I`d replace the stove(s) if it couldn`t handle the fines.

I should add that the amount of fines in the picture look to be severe. Maybe you should switch to another pellet brand.

Sifting pellets isn't really that bad.I have my set-up in the garage next to the pallets of pellets.takes about 10 minutes to sift 2 five gallon buckets. would be quicker maybe but the fridge with beer is out there too.

 

[St_Earl]

i never sift. and i've never had a jam.
the flexible auger design really works.

 

[Stovensen]

SAFETY FIRST!! I absolutely agree with Scott Williamson on that and this is why I already in my first post mentioned the risk of overdosing with vegetable oil on the pile of sawdust. We don't know what will/can happen, so let us leave this kind of experiments to trained personnel on the pellet stove factory in collaboration with the fire brigade.
This can be compared to letting untrained persons work on electrical appliances connected to grid voltage: If you don't have the skills, leave it to trained personnel!!
But you must understand my situation: After countless numbers of shut downs due to accumulated sawdust, emptying of the hopper, vacuuming and so on to make my house warm again, well... it was totally unbearable. As I mentioned above, I was even considering replacing the pellet stove with a wood stove.
Basically a desperate situation for us around here with an icecold house and - 15 at night!! What do you do in a desperate situation?
I'm definitely not a lazy stove owner... I've overhauled and maintained this stove thoroughly since I bought it five years ago in a very bad condition.
One important note on my stove, though: The charred discoloration round the auger intake was already there when I bought it, no hopper fire here.

 

[will711]

Sifting pellets isn't really that bad.I have my set-up in the garage next to the pallets of pellets.takes about 10 minutes to sift 2 five gallon buckets. would be quicker maybe but the fridge with beer is out there too.

I got me one of those fridges too, funny how they can slow down a project ,but make it soo much more fun

 

[Harvey Schneider]

not sure i could get myself to buy "**** oil" ....but good info nonetheless

Canola oil commonly used in the US is a genetically engineered **** seed oil. Canola sounds a lot better. It stands for "Canadian Oil Low Acid". Nutritionally as good as olive oil.

Regarding the risk of fire from the use of small amounts of oil, I would be extremely cautious and since I haven't had any real problems with auger jams I probably won't have need to go that way. On the plus side the small amount of oil may act to lubricate the auger reducing the load on the auger motor. On the minus side, this still leaves a layer of fines dust on everything within three feet of the hopper from when the pellets were poured into the hopper.
I am somewhat surprised at the heavy handed condemnation of what may be a good solution to a problem. Advocate caution, don't condemn innovation.

 

[briansol]

Canola oil commonly used in the US is a genetically engineered **** seed oil. Canola sounds a lot better. It stands for "Canadian Oil Low Acid". Nutritionally as good as olive oil.

This is completely false. Canloa oil should NOT be consumed by humans (who care about their health). But this is another thread entirely....
(broken link removed)

Regarding the risk of fire from the use of small amounts of oil, I would be extremely cautious and since I haven't had any real problems with auger jams I probably won't have need to go that way. On the plus side the small amount of oil may act to lubricate the auger reducing the load on the auger motor. On the minus side, this still leaves a layer of fines dust on everything within three feet of the hopper from when the pellets were poured into the hopper.
I am somewhat surprised at the heavy handed condemnation of what may be a good solution to a problem. Advocate caution, don't condemn innovation.

NEVER EVER add anything flamable to the hopper. Period. Using oils, lubes, or anything petrolium based is just a horrible idea and a Darwin award waiting to happen.