Venting option for Quad Santa Fe

[caseyclan]

Greetings,
Presently, I have 2 Quad CB1200 inserts on my ground floor, and just purchased a Quad Santa Fe freestanding for downstairs in the basement to help warm the kids' playroom and family TV room. My dealer has recommended a straight "out the back" vent pipe with the angled rain cap on it. I like the idea as it it has a neat appearance. However, I recall reading on this forum a while back that some members recommended against straight horizontal pipe without a any amount of rise due to quick backup of smoke in the house when the electricity goes out. I have the capability of using a generator wired into my circuit box when this scenario should happen, which is expected since ice has knocked out electricity in my city the last 2 years. However, it is a manual set up, so it will be 10-15 mins before the genset is hooked up, and running once the electricity goes out, which provides a great opportunity for a smoke - filled home. I discussed this with my dealer, and he said that not only has this not been an issue with other owners (via installs he has done), but Quad recommends the straight "out the back" install without any rise as it is easier to clean out, and reduces the amount of ash build up in the vent. Does anyone else have this same set up, or one that is similar? Have you had issues with smoke filling up the house when the electricity goes out? Comments welcomed.

 

[imacman]

My dealer has recommended a straight "out the back" vent pipe with the angled rain cap on it.......
I discussed this with my dealer, and he said that not only has this not been an issue with other owners (via installs he has done), but Quad recommends the straight "out the back" install without any rise as it is easier to clean out, and reduces the amount of ash build up in the vent.

Not sure where your dealer is getting that statement about what Quadrafire "recommends" from, but this is a direct quote from the owners manual for your stove:

"It is recommended that at least 60 inches (1524mm) of vertical pipe be installed when appliance is vented directly
through a wall. This will create a natural draft, which will help prevent the possibility of smoke or odor venting
into the home during a power outage."

IMO, I think I'd believe the people who designed, built, and tested the stove.

 

[caseyclan]

macman,
Thanks for the feedback. I didn't think about looking at an online manual - fantastic idea! Anyway, i found what you were talking about, but on the page prior (page 13) it shows a through the wall installation, with termination recommendation of a minimum of 12 inches from the outside wall. maybe I read it wrong, but it seems to offer the vertical or the horizontal venting options equally, without a recommendation for one over the other. It would rally be nice to chat with others who have done one way or the other and listen to the pros and cons of both. Obviously, the horizontal install will be quicker, cheaper, but cleaner looking - not much attraction to a big piece of pipe running up the side of your house. But, I want to do what's best for performance. It is certainly a tough decision.

 

[coreystaf]

Casey, if you are burning a fire in a pellet stove and the power goes out, you can usually expect the stove to start smoking in about 30 sec - 1 min. You probably already know this by having 2 other pellet stoves in your house. If you don't have any natural draft by vertical rise in the pipe, the smoke will absolutely come into your house. I have installed lots of pellet stoves with a horizontal vent, but they were stoves that have a more readily removable burn grate, so it is easy to grab it (with something underneath) and run it outdoors, and we rarely lose power for more than a few minutes here. If you lose power often, and the quad burn pots are not easily removable, I would recommend using a bit of vertical pipe.

 

[imacman]

The owners manual may say that a horizontal flue can be used, but it also "recommended that at least 60 inches (1524mm) of vertical pipe be installed when appliance is vented directly through a wall"..... if you're concerned about smoke coming back into the house during a power outage, IMO, that is the way to go.

Yes, you CAN go straight out the side horizontally (and I know someone who has that set-up), but the owners manual seemed pretty clear.

For me, the question would be what's more important to me?.......Looks, or proper venting. The choice is yours.

 

[peirhead]

If you are concerned over short term power outages I'd recommend a small UPS like you'd put on a computer..Best Buy and others have them for $50 and up...be sure to get enough capacity to keep the stove running...probably 500W would do it...that is what I am putting on my Castile...when it comes!!

 

[caseyclan]

macman,
You're right - I saw the page where the recommendation was listed. Interesting. I may not be able to meet the reqs, considering where I would like to place my stove. The vertical pipe may be too close to my deck. I could get by with the straight pipe, though.

Peirhead, thanks for the input - interesting idea. I have to do some research on that little device and give it a strong consideration!

 

[coreystaf]

Pierhead-
would you explain what a UPS is? I tell people to get a small inverter and use it with a car battery but yours sounds better.

 

[DiggerJim]

Pierhead-
would you explain what a UPS is? I tell people to get a small inverter and use it with a car battery but yours sounds better.

Uninterruptible Power Supply. They're used for computers all the time. They're basically a battery (usually lead) with an on board charging system and some electronics for communicating with the computer. The preferred type is one that you plug into the wall and then plug the PC (or pellet stove) into the UPS. The power is always coming from the UPS so there's no switching delay when the power goes out. When that happens though the circuitry will send a signal to a PC connection where it triggers some standby software to wake up and shutdown the computer gracefully (closing files, etc. so nothing gets corrupted by a hard shutdown). There are some that are designed to let the attached device stay on for minutes or even hours so that temporary power failures don't cause cycling of the servers or computers.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8022935&st=ups&type=product&id=1157067061643 will let me run my pellet stove for about 3 hours. Plenty of time to fire up the generator.

 

[coreystaf]

Thanks, that is a really good tip. Just so long as your stove doesn't try to reignite i guess huh!!
I looked at the link, do You know if one is made that doesn't have software, just a basic unit that will kick over and run till its out or till the 110 comes back on?

 

[DiggerJim]

Thanks, that is a really good tip. Just so long as your stove doesn't try to reignite i guess huh!!
I looked at the link, do You know if one is made that doesn't have software, just a basic unit that will kick over and run till its out or till the 110 comes back on?

Most won't handle the extra wattage needed to do a self-ignite - but if it's burning, put the stove in manual mode and it'll keep burning. The software connect is pretty much standard but isn't needed to operate anything, it's just used to tell the PC that the power's gone out and to start cycling down. If you use it for the pellet stove, just plug in and you're good. You can test it by unplugging the UPS from the wall and your stove shouldn't even hiccup.

Check your owners manual for the power consumption (usually 2 numbers - the running # and the ignition #). Some stoves run 200W in running mode although mine is about 350W and 700 for 6 minutes in startup mode. Then look at the power specs for the UPS. They're rated in VA but will also tell you how many watts for how long. BB has one for $65 that is good for 330W for an hour. The big one is 1500VA (865W) and should handle my stove for 3 or 4 hours.

I like APC UPSes as they're solid and never let me down (in the computer arena). Make sure you get one with a replaceable battery. The batteries tend to last about 3 years or so and then need to be replaced - if the model doesn't have a replaceable battery you have to buy a whole new UPS and that's about twice the cost of the battery. You can get UPSes in BB, Circuit City, Tweeters, etc.

 

[peirhead]

DiggerJim has given great detail on this..if you use a thermostat that does the off on cycle (like most Quads) you need to account for the igniter load which means a much larger ups (900 VA or 500 watt minimum)...if you don't depend on the igniter then a much smaller ups would be fine. I was mainly considering it for the power bumps to protect the stove circuitry and short 5 - 10 minute interruptions...obviously if you want to be ready for serious winter outages a generator of some kind would be advised. The UPS solution would keep you up long enough to get your gen set on line....People with the car battery/inverter configuration have a bit of an advantage ....in case of a longer outage they could run a long cable from the car (battery) to the inverter at the stove and run the car whenever the battery starts to get low ....till the car runs out of gas that is...

 

[imacman]

Pierhead-
would you explain what a UPS is? I tell people to get a small inverter and use it with a car battery but yours sounds better.

This unit was in a previous thread....looks like a nice unit. made by Noma