Venting question

[High Altitude]

Hi Everyone,

I am most likely going with the Castile and installing it in my family room in a walk out basement. It will be a corner installation.

There is a 3.5 foot stem wall there with another 5.5' to the ceiling. The grade behind the stem wall is probably about 6-8" below it.

I will have to run the venting pipe out of the stove, up 5.5-6' or so and through the wall.

Being that I live at 8,000' I will be using 4" venting pipe.

Questions

1. Will the 5.5'-6' vertical run inside the house be enough for adequate draft so that if the power goes out the smoke will exit out the vent? Does it matter if the vertical venting run is inside or outside the house?

2. How far away from the house should I put the venting cap at the end of the run so that I will not get soot on the side of my house?

3. Is there any way to put in a cold air intake vent that will look good aesthetically? The intake vent would have to run up and over the 3.5' stem fall before going out the side of the house. I would like to run a cold air intake but if there isn't any way to do it so it looks OK, I will probably not do it.

Maybe there is some type of system where I can use a larger pipe, say 6", where the intake is combined inside it (seperate from the venting section of course but looks like one pipe) This would also allow the intake air to be heated before it gets to the stove.

Thanks

 

[hoverfly]

Here in some reading on what you can do. Venting your Pellet Stove

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Hi Everyone,

I am most likely going with the Castile and installing it in my family room in a walk out basement. It will be a corner installation.

There is a 3.5 foot stem wall there with another 5.5' to the ceiling. The grade behind the stem wall is probably about 6-8" below it.

I will have to run the venting pipe out of the stove, up 5.5-6' or so and through the wall.

Being that I live at 8,000' I will be using 4" venting pipe.

Questions

1. Will the 5.5'-6' vertical run inside the house be enough for adequate draft so that if the power goes out the smoke will exit out the vent? Does it matter if the vertical venting run is inside or outside the house?

that should suffice usually it doesnt take more than a few feet

2. How far away from the house should I put the venting cap at the end of the run so that I will not get soot on the side of my house?

i'd try to get it at least 15-18" away and keep it and the stove clean which is the usual cause for sooted walls

3. Is there any way to put in a cold air intake vent that will look good aesthetically? The intake vent would have to run up and over the 3.5' stem fall before going out the side of the house. I would like to run a cold air intake but if there isn't any way to do it so it looks OK, I will probably not do it.

i would definately do it its better for the stove and reduces the risk of smoke spillage out the intake if a power outage occurs

Maybe there is some type of system where I can use a larger pipe, say 6", where the intake is combined inside it (seperate from the venting section of course but looks like one pipe) This would also allow the intake air to be heated before it gets to the stove.

selkirk metalbestos manufactures a direct vent class L pipe which has an outer shell intake wrapped around the inner shell exhaust , pretty cool product , i have not worked with it personally but selkirk is one of the most respected brands of prefab flue pipe available. may just be what you are looking for. hope this helps

Thanks

 

[High Altitude]

Thanks Mike for the heads up on the intake pipe setup.

I am thinking about building a small wall across the corner so there will be a chase to run both the exhaust and intake pipe in. I will have to look up the clearances needed but I don't think it will have to be all that big.

I will put the stove against the wall etc....

I think it will be a much better and cleaner setup.

I also just realized that I most likely will have no choice but to go with outside air. I will only have 3' clearance to one window which won't meet code. If you use outside air I believe the code changes to 18".

My house is pretty new (built 4 years ago) but it is on the small side for a new home (2200 sqft) with a good supply of windows. Trying to find a place to put the stove and meet all venting codes has been a challenge.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Thanks Mike for the heads up on the intake pipe setup..

no problem , i saw it in a trade mag a year or so ago , thought it was a hell of an idea

I am thinking about building a small wall across the corner so there will be a chase to run both the exhaust and intake pipe in. I will have to look up the clearances needed but I don't think it will have to be all that big..

make sure if you do this that you can gain access to the pipe for cleaning without any major effort, if not you will regret doing it

.

I also just realized that I most likely will have no choice but to go with outside air. I will only have 3' clearance to one window which won't meet code. If you use outside air I believe the code changes to 18"..

incorrect , outside air does not change nfpa 211 criteria for clearance to windows doors or other gravity inlets. its still 4 ft , unless you carry the pipe termination minimum 1 foot above the window. you still must meet that..[/quote]



let me know if i can be of further help

 

[High Altitude]

If it is one foot above then I am golden but I did read something that the spec changes if using outside air.

I guess not.

EDIT: here it is

I read it in the st croix hastings installation manual Page 13.

6" with outside air under 10,000btu

9" with outside air 10,000-50,000 btu.

Mike,

Please take a look. Maybe this is out dated now.

The site is down so I can't link the pdf file.

It says under NFPA 211-6 3.3.3.2

and

NFPA 211-31 10.7.1.2

When the site comes back up I will post the link.

 

[High Altitude]

here it is

(broken link removed to http://www.eventempinc.com/stcroix/downloads/dig2/Hastings_Installations_Manual_2-08.pdf)

Page 13 of the manual

Page 14 on the pdf

 

[High Altitude]

I am bumping this thread back up to see if anyone has anything to say about the different clearances needed with the outside air kit.

 

[cristiansmom]

I was told the same thing with the st croix afton bay. I was originally looking at a quad but because of the 4 foot clearance I couldn't do it. The dealer said with the outside air kit the clearance is reduced to 18 inches... They are installing it so I thought they know what I need. they are coming on Wednesday to take a look at my house...

Debi

 

[Fire It Up]

I have a castile and I went up about 5-6 feet then out and capped it. I have it capped at 18 inches, but I believe the manual says 24 inches. I might extend this winter, as I do get a bit of black on my log siding. It washes off in the spring if I scrub it, but then I usually have to restain, so I am trying to avoid it.

 

[hellday]

Hello everyone.. I just registered but i have been visiting this site for months now and doing alot of reading and i cant believe all the info on this site (awesome site).. I am more of a reader than a poster but i have a question on the clearences for the venting near a window. What is the reason for keeping it 48 inches away from a non permanent window. What will or could happen if you lets say put it 3 ft. or 2 ft. for that matter..

 

[Shortstuff]

Hello everyone.. I just registered but i have been visiting this site for months now and doing alot of reading and i cant believe all the info on this site (awesome site).. I am more of a reader than a poster but i have a question on the clearences for the venting near a window. What is the reason for keeping it 48 inches away from a non permanent window. What will or could happen if you lets say put it 3 ft. or 2 ft. for that matter..

It has to do with the likelyhood that the exhaust fumes will either drift towards or be blown towards the open window or door, allowing carbon monoxide to enter the living area. A minimum of 48" distance will help keep the fumes out. It really is a very important safety factor.

Steve

 

[orangecrushcj7]

Troutman - IMHO, it is arbitrary. It is an "idiot rule" more than anything. Just think, why would anyone have thier windows open when they had the stove burning anyways? It is more important to keep it away from air intake openings, and other things that are open al lthe time, even dryer or bath vents. If the OAK were to get clogged, the stove is going to take air in somwhere. I am in no way encouraging anyone to install in any way other than how the manual/local code states, just giving my 2 cents. More than likely, if you didn't install per the regs, your home owners insurance would not cover a loss if they could prove it was installed otherwise.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

here it is

(broken link removed to http://www.eventempinc.com/stcroix/downloads/dig2/Hastings_Installations_Manual_2-08.pdf)

Page 13 of the manual

Page 14 on the pdf

ok, now im confused. granted i do not know this stove. but it looks like it has 2 intakes, one "combustion air intake tube" and one "outside air tube" shown in figure 11 in the manual.

here's my question , do you block one if you connect to the other? and if not how is it a "sealed system"?

i did read the code, and apparantly it is correct in the manual as long as it is listed as such , though im still curious about the intake setup of that stove in regard to the "sealed system " which 211-6 3.3.3.2 states "all air for combustion is obtained from the outside atmosphere" if the other combustion air inlet is open to indoors , then it is not drawing all combustion air from outside and couldnt meet the standard of 211-10.7.1.1 and 10.7.1.2

by the way , this is interesting as hell to me as i had not noticed the "special venting arrangements as pertaining to solid fuel devices , i thought it was for gas only , guess ya taught me somthing today thanks

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Hello everyone.. I just registered but i have been visiting this site for months now and doing alot of reading and i cant believe all the info on this site (awesome site).. I am more of a reader than a poster but i have a question on the clearences for the venting near a window. What is the reason for keeping it 48 inches away from a non permanent window. What will or could happen if you lets say put it 3 ft. or 2 ft. for that matter..

It has to do with the likelyhood that the exhaust fumes will either drift towards or be blown towards the open window or door, allowing carbon monoxide to enter the living area. A minimum of 48" distance will help keep the fumes out. It really is a very important safety factor.

Steve

windows, doors or other "gravity air inlets" are the terms in NFPA211 the reasoning is that all doors, windows and vents are not created equal, brand new andersons may not leak but single pane old fashioned windows like my house has definately will leak (as mine definately do). and since there is no way to break down every window type and possible condition , the blanket standard was written to allow necessary clearance to allow CO dispersion in "worst case" scenario. the clearance apparantly can be reduced if the unit is equipped with an outside air kit and is considered as a "sealed system" this clearance reduction is determined by the BTU output of the unit in question. apparantly due to a sealed system's non-effect on negative pressure compared with the negative pressure developed when using indoor air.

all in all though , steve is right , it is an important safety factor

 

[slls]

here it is

(broken link removed to http://www.eventempinc.com/stcroix/downloads/dig2/Hastings_Installations_Manual_2-08.pdf)

Page 13 of the manual

Page 14 on the pdf

ok, now im confused. granted i do not know this stove. but it looks like it has 2 intakes, one "combustion air intake tube" and one "outside air tube" shown in figure 11 in the manual.

here's my question , do you block one if you connect to the other? and if not how is it a "sealed system"?

i did read the code, and apparantly it is correct in the manual as long as it is listed as such , though im still curious about the intake setup of that stove in regard to the "sealed system " which 211-6 3.3.3.2 states "all air for combustion is obtained from the outside atmosphere" if the other combustion air inlet is open to indoors , then it is not drawing all combustion air from outside and couldnt meet the standard of 211-10.7.1.1 and 10.7.1.2

by the way , this is interesting as hell to me as i had not noticed the "special venting arrangements as pertaining to solid fuel devices , i thought it was for gas only , guess ya taught me somthing today thanks

I looked at it, it is one intake for combustion. If you plan to go out side you put the tube extension the one combustion intake. At least that is how I see it.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

here it is

(broken link removed to http://www.eventempinc.com/stcroix/downloads/dig2/Hastings_Installations_Manual_2-08.pdf)

Page 13 of the manual

Page 14 on the pdf

ok, now im confused. granted i do not know this stove. but it looks like it has 2 intakes, one "combustion air intake tube" and one "outside air tube" shown in figure 11 in the manual.

here's my question , do you block one if you connect to the other? and if not how is it a "sealed system"?

i did read the code, and apparantly it is correct in the manual as long as it is listed as such , though im still curious about the intake setup of that stove in regard to the "sealed system " which 211-6 3.3.3.2 states "all air for combustion is obtained from the outside atmosphere" if the other combustion air inlet is open to indoors , then it is not drawing all combustion air from outside and couldnt meet the standard of 211-10.7.1.1 and 10.7.1.2

by the way , this is interesting as hell to me as i had not noticed the "special venting arrangements as pertaining to solid fuel devices , i thought it was for gas only , guess ya taught me somthing today thanks

I looked at it, it is one intake for combustion. If you plan to go out side you put the tube extension the one combustion intake. At least that is how I see it.

ok i see now , the "outside air tube" in the drawing isnt attached , the drawing fooled me , looed like 2 tubes on the stove, i get it now , thanks a bunch

 

[hellday]

i would like to thank everyone that answered my question. i read in the manual about the specks but it never explained why and i was just curious. The dealer came out to quote me on a new stove with installation and i have 4 ft between the corner and my window which means he will be installing adirect vent about 3 to 3 1/2 ft from the window but he calimed there would not be a problem with direct venting.. maybe because my windows are newer??