Vesta Controller Pros and Cons

[Born2burn]

Is the vesta a good reliable controller and monitor out there. I think it looks like it would be worth it for my gasifier, I like the history of data that it appears to collect. Any thought, are there a lot of others using it?

 

[huffdawg]

Mine has had no issues with reliability other than the exhaust gas temp sensor , seems to work about 80% of the time. Check it out the links in my signature. I still need to set it up to control a few more pumps. But might be changing the system a bit in the summer.

 

[Beagle Dad]

Is the vesta a good reliable controller and monitor out there. I think it looks like it would be worth it for my gasifier, I like the history of data that it appears to collect. Any thought, are there a lot of others using it?

I have a Vesta system as well. Mine has been installed for one year now with no problems. I selected this controller for its versatility and ease of programing and installation. As you know already you get a controller that can be viewed from inside your home or from a remote location (PC or mobile device) though the port forwarding feature in our Router.

My controller is used to control the Return Water temperature to my Froling 20 boiler. I have a few modes of operation which allows the boiler to fire a full output or in an extended burn mode so that the fire will last from 8 to 9 hours. The storage tanks are monitored and the various heating loops are enabled depending on storage availability.

The last step for me is to create a graphic rather than using the list of inputs and outputs

 

[huffdawg]

I have a Vesta system as well. Mine has been installed for one year now with no problems. I selected this controller for its versatility and ease of programing and installation. As you know already you get a controller that can be viewed from inside your home or from a remote location (PC or mobile device) though the port forwarding feature in our Router.

My controller is used to control the Return Water temperature to my Froling 20 boiler. I have a few modes of operation which allows the boiler to fire a full output or in an extended burn mode so that the fire will last from 8 to 9 hours. The storage tanks are monitored and the various heating loops are enabled depending on storage availability.

The last step for me is to create a graphic rather than using the list of inputs and outputs




View attachment 169866

BD your place must be insulated very well for that FHG 20 to heat all that space. For your boiler to burn for 8 to 9 hrs it must be in idle mode for a while

 

[Beagle Dad]

BD your place must be insulated very well for that FHG 20 to heat all that space. For your boiler to burn for 8 to 9 hrs it must be in idle mode for a while

In the coldest weather my house needs about 1,100,000 BTUs over a 24 hours period, the house has R30 spray foam walls and R60 Roof (air sealed with 2-3" spray foam then topped up with cellulose. I wanted to design the boiler system so that I had enough storage to handle the load in the overnight and morning and buffer the heat from the boiler as it operates for up to 20 hours straight in the cold weather. The Froling can modulate from 100% to 50% output but you do not want to fire at 50% when you have just filled the fire box. This is where the Vesta controller adds functionality to the system. When I want a long burn I fill the fire box as full as possible on a 2 to 3" bed of coals. Then I set a State Variable which I call EXTENED BURN to ON. My program runs the boiler at 80 to 100% output for 2.5 hours which during this time burns off all the gasses and moisture. After this time the boiler goes to idle which is about 50% output (50% of 70,000 BTH for about 35,000) burning the charred wood for the remainder of the burn which last up to a total of 9 hours.

I control the firing rate by raising the return water temperature to the boiler via the mixing valve which the Vesta controls. With the Froling Lamda control the boiler does a great job of controlling the primary and secondary air through the burn. I just needed to help out a bit at the beginning of the cycle by keeping the firing rate up a bit to ensure that the primary air was not at a minimum while the gasses burned off. When I first tried the long burn at lower outputs the boiler would smoke for a couple of hours as the Primary air would be at a lower position to control the leaving water temperature and the secondary air would be at 100% with the stack O2 at less than the 8% target.

My system is just one year old and I find that the chimney only accumulates a fine layer of dust and the boiler is very clean with this operation. My flue temperatures range from 350°F at the beginning of the burn and 285°F once the boiler idles back. This was better than I expected and I cannot say enough about this boilers performance. Just light the fire, fill it and let it burn.

 

[huffdawg]

In the coldest weather my house needs about 1,100,000 BTUs over a 24 hours period, the house has R30 spray foam walls and R60 Roof (air sealed with 2-3" spray foam then topped up with cellulose. I wanted to design the boiler system so that I had enough storage to handle the load in the overnight and morning and buffer the heat from the boiler as it operates for up to 20 hours straight in the cold weather. The Froling can modulate from 100% to 50% output but you do not want to fire at 50% when you have just filled the fire box. This is where the Vesta controller adds functionality to the system. When I want a long burn I fill the fire box as full as possible on a 2 to 3" bed of coals. Then I set a State Variable which I call EXTENED BURN to ON. My program runs the boiler at 80 to 100% output for 2.5 hours which during this time burns off all the gasses and moisture. After this time the boiler goes to idle which is about 50% output (50% of 70,000 BTH for about 35,000) burning the charred wood for the remainder of the burn which last up to a total of 9 hours.

I control the firing rate by raising the return water temperature to the boiler via the mixing valve which the Vesta controls. With the Froling Lamda control the boiler does a great job of controlling the primary and secondary air through the burn. I just needed to help out a bit at the beginning of the cycle by keeping the firing rate up a bit to ensure that the primary air was not at a minimum while the gasses burned off. When I first tried the long burn at lower outputs the boiler would smoke for a couple of hours as the Primary air would be at a lower position to control the leaving water temperature and the secondary air would be at 100% with the stack O2 at less than the 8% target.

My system is just one year old and I find that the chimney only accumulates a fine layer of dust and the boiler is very clean with this operation. My flue temperatures range from 350°F at the beginning of the burn and 285°F once the boiler idles back. This was better than I expected and I cannot say enough about this boilers performance. Just light the fire, fill it and let it burn.

Thats excellent, does the Vesta communicate withe controller on the froling? I was talking to the froling dealer in Ontario he said The FHG also talks MODBUS and can integrate with your automation system .
How does the Vesta control the mixing valve,is it a loading valve also?

 

[velvetfoot]

I like the idea of indirectly controlling the boiler firing rate by adjusting the boiler water return temperature.

 

[Beagle Dad]

Thats excellent, does the Vesta communicate withe controller on the froling? I was talking to the froling dealer in Ontario he said The FHG also talks MODBUS and can integrate with your automation system .
How does the Vesta control the mixing valve,is it a loading valve also?

The Vesta does not communicate with the Froling. I monitor the Supply Water Temp from the boiler with the Vesta to determine if the boiler is cold, heating up, hot and cooling down. From here I set the Return water temperature setpoint to the boiler. The mixing valve is my loading valve, this valve is a 3-way mixing valve which uses a 0-10v signal from the Vesta

 

[huffdawg]

The Vesta does not communicate with the Froling. I monitor the Supply Water Temp from the boiler with the Vesta to determine if the boiler is cold, heating up, hot and cooling down. From here I set the Return water temperature setpoint to the boiler. The mixing valve is my loading valve, this valve is a 3-way mixing valve which uses a 0-10v signal from the Vesta[/QU


Does the Vesta control the boiler circ and the 3 way valve. Or does the Froling controller look after the boiler circ.
Sorry for all the questions , I might be repiping my near boiler stuff in the summer and I'm kind of interested in your setup. Would you happen to have a schematic of your sytsem? Is your 3 way valve similar to the one below?

 

[Born2burn]

The Vesta does not communicate with the Froling. I monitor the Supply Water Temp from the boiler with the Vesta to determine if the boiler is cold, heating up, hot and cooling down. From here I set the Return water temperature setpoint to the boiler. The mixing valve is my loading valve, this valve is a 3-way mixing valve which uses a 0-10v signal from the Vesta

Ok I am very interested, the vesta I am pretty much sold on. Dumb question, the loading valve is how much load or cooler water going back to boiler?

 

[Nofossil]

OK, I *have* to jump in here on Froling and Modbus. I promise no thread hijacking.....

We have a new model Vesta that has a ModBus interface. Not inexpensive, though. It's intended for commercial/industrial applications and would be overkill in almost any residential setting.

We have played nice with Froling boilers, even without Modbus, in other installations besides Huff's. In one case, we set the Froling (a P4) to be turned on and off by the Vesta. One advantage is that we can charge storage a lot or a little, depending on the season and time of day. We also monitor the fault output of the P4 so that we'll allow backup heat to come on sooner than it would have in cases where the Froling has a problem. Finally, we manage the entire environment around the Froling to optimize its operation. Load management, cool water return routing, heat exchanger management, solar panel return temperature management - pretty much anything we can do to make the Froling as efficient as possible. Here's a live GUI for that system.

 

[velvetfoot]

Alas, is propane also less expensive than pellets? Just kidding, but not really. How big is storage for that P4?

 

[Nofossil]

Alas, is propane also less expensive than pellets? Just kidding, but not really. How big is storage for that P4?

OK, we have to *not* hijack this thread. Really. Just not fair.
Two 500 gallon tanks in series, with a tee to allow return water to go to the bottom of the hot tank if it's hot enough. The live GUI shows the bulk of the plumbing.

 

[velvetfoot]

That's big storage.

May I ask what is that big blue lined thing with the two pumps and temp indication on the left side of the diagram? It's what the customer wants, but would it be nice to see the boiler temps too? Do the lines change color?

 

[Nofossil]

Created a new thread for Vesta / Froling installation. My apologies to Born2Burn.

By the way - I happen to think that the Vesta is completely awesome. But I might not be impartial ;-)

Historical note - the Vesta is the commercial descendant of the venerable NoFossil Control System (NFCS). Many folks here have used the NFCS.

 

[Beagle Dad]

Ok I am very interested, the vesta I am pretty much sold on. Dumb question, the loading valve is how much load or cooler water going back to boiler?

The loading valve is the valve which controls the temperature of the water entering the boiler. Its main function is to keep the water above the minimum temperature required by the boiler to protect it from condensing and thermal shock.

 

[Nofossil]

In my own system, I don't use a loading valve. Instead, I use a bypass circulator (Grundfos 15-58), and the Vesta controls the speed to hold the inlet temp above 140. Here's a screenshot of it in action during my last fire. There's also a zone valve which prevents any bypass at all when it's closed.

 

[huffdawg]

I use a danfoss . Heres a Vesta graph which is showing boiler out and boiler in temps . Its shows the pump launching and the danfoss opening and closing after I lit a fire this morn around 8:45 pst.