Vines good for anything?

[7acres]

I was conflicted about posting this on this forum. But being good stewards of our respective wood lots is definitely something this community is passionate about.

Over the years I've rescued drooping saplings from opportunistic vines. A few weekends ago I ripped out probably a dozen vines girdling a black cherry. And I've been working on cutting a nice wide walking trail around the perimeter of my property so we have a shady place to retreat to during the heat of the Summer. As I go every time I come across a vine wrapped around a tree I always feel the urge to pull it down and rip it out by the roots.

I always feel like disturbing nature's balance is, in general, a mistake. Are vines good for anything from a woodlot management perspective? Or should I continue ripping them out guilt-free whenever I find them?

 

[baseroom]

I'm with you! Vines seem to be parasitic killers to me.

 

[peakbagger]

There are long term vines that evolved with the forest and then there are invasive vines which unfortunately are spreading like wildfire. Given your location I don't think anyone would advocate for letting Kudzu spread. It probably worth investigating what type of vines they are but I sure haven't heard of many vines that improve the forest. Just realize that many of the invasive vines are incredibly hard to kill. You may need to treat the stubs with some roundup dabbed on the cut face being careful not to get it on the ground around or on the trunk of the tree you are trying to save.

Some resources (broken link removed to https://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/pubs/midatlantic/control-vines.htm)

"Cut Stem Method. Use this method in areas where vines are established within or around non-target plants or where vines are growing on host trees. Cut vine stems close to the ground (about a foot above ground or at a convenient height) and immediately apply a 25% solution of glyphosate (e.g., Accord®) or triclopyr (e.g., Garlon® 4) mixed with water to the cut surface of the stem. Glyphosate and triclopyr applications are effective at temperatures as low as 45°F as long as the ground is not frozen. Subsequent foliar applications may be necessary to control new seedlings or sprouts. Homeowners can apply products like Brush-B-Gone®, Brush Killer® and Roundup Pro® concentrate undiluted to cut stems. Use a paint brush or a plastic spray bottle to apply the herbicide to cut surfaces."

 

[Dobish]

you can come to my house and tear out all the vines you want. i have a ton of Virginia Creeper that I can't seem to get rid of. I am pretty sure I pulled an entire dumpsters worth a week ago, and now it is back! i don't really like using roundup, but I may have to go nuclear on them this fall.... between that and the box elders that pop back up by looking at them I feel like i'm fighting a losing battle.

 

[gerry100]

Have the vine issue around my lot also
I assume they are grape
Vinesfrom the Previous owner (40 years ago) or from when it was farmed( 60-100 years ago)
I just cut them as I come across them ( 2 in diameter ) giving the trees
An edge, they were here first

 

[7acres]

The vines I have are, 60% grape, 10% poison ivy and 30% one other variety I don't know the identity of. Fortunately no Kudzu for me yet!

The grape is the interesting one. It's like my whole forest floor is one giant grape root network. I always try to uproot them but the roots just keep pulling and pulling. I don't know if I've ever pulled up an entire grape root system. The roots just snap and more grape leaves pop up from that point. I hear Kudzu is like that too.

 

[peakbagger]

I understand that some folks don't like using Roundup or the generic equivalents. Like everything if its used thoughtfully in moderation it works well. Unfortunately many folks equate that it little works a lot works better. Just a dab will do ya is probably the best approach. Unfortunately it may take a couple of years to get out persistent

A good article (from and excellent magazine) on battling invasives http://northernwoodlands.org/articles/article/field-work-battling-invasives

 

[sportbikerider78]

There were everywhere on my property when I move here. Now I have successfully eradicated them on 4 of my 8 acres.

I cut them off where the vine comes out of the ground..some up to 4" in diameter. If there is no sun on the forest floor..they just die in a season.

 

[Dobish]

There were everywhere on my property when I move here. Now I have successfully eradicated them on 4 of my 8 acres.

did you buck them in the tree too

makes me feel better about my 1/2 acre I have to deal with.

 

[StihlKicking]

From a timber management point of view, vines are worthless. If your main goal is to produce quality timber for commercial harvest or firewood vines aren't gonna do you any favors. On the other hand they can play an important role in natural Forrest succession and be extremely beneficial in wildlife management techniques. It all depends on what your goals are as a land owner.


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[taylorfarms]

Roundup is hit and miss (but for $11gal for 54% it is cheap to use)we use a paintbrush and red food coloring to dye it
anymore we use tordonRTU, it comes in a dish soap like bottle, and is dyed blue run a ring around the cambium and it will stay dead summer or winter

and do not worry about getting roundup/glyphosate on the soil around trees(and to be honest the label says woody stems are safe as well) as glyphosate has no soil activity. "here" roundup will not kill most weeds anymore, let alone trees, I have tried killing trees on our farm over terraces with it, they don't die.

 

[7acres]

I had a good day yesterday finding several mulberry and sassafras on the property. The vines love these two. I came across two hickory that were girdled a few years ago until I removed the vines. But the damage was done. This year the corkscrew compromised them so bad they both fell over under their own weight. I think I'll be loading a couple corkscrews into the wood stove in the future.

 

[Longstreet]

Triclopry is better than RU for woody plants. Brand name is garlon 4 I believe. You can also buy genetic.

Triclopry is very closely related to one of the chemicals in agent orange. Its that effective. If you see large scale eradication of woody shrubs it's nost likely garlon 4.

 

[Soundchasm]

I'll cut a grapevine anytime I see one. I admit that I don't understand the relationship between the vine and the tree, but I would prefer for the tree to have the advantage. I have one tree that was wind-damaged and the vines prevented the broken limbs from falling.

I saved a cross section of a grapevine that seemed big to me. I just measured it and it was 7" diameter.

 

[CenterTree]

I am sure vines have a "place" in the natural scheme of things, but so do mosquitoes, and I myself have no problem dispatching those pesky little b@st@rds.

 

[7acres]

I am sure vines have a "place" in the natural scheme of things, but so do mosquitoes, and I myself have no problem dispatching those pesky little b@st@rds.

That pretty much sums it up!

 

[Lcback]

I have grape vines and what we call jaggers. I don't know what those are scientifically.
They are full of thorns. And make it miserable to walk through the woods. I leave most of the jaggers though, I'm hoping it increases my deer food and phesant / grouse homes. I am a Hunter.
I will cut them off trees that they are growing up though.

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[7acres]

So I was counting my blessings earlier that I don't have kudzu to deal with. Then I noticed a patch of it at the end of my road. About 1000' from my property.

To start understanding it and hopefully find a way to nip it in the bud if I start seeing it at my place I hit up Google. The first full page of Google results for "kudzu root", which is where I figured you'd have to focus to eradicate it, are all about the health benefits of kudzu.

On and on about kudzu being the cure for everything. Then on to Wikipedia I found what I was looking for, "Mechanical methods of control involve cutting off crowns from roots, usually just below ground level. This immediately kills the plant." Good to know I have an option if I don't want get into the kudzu health supplement business.

 

[SawDawg]

If someone tells you vines don't hurt trees, they are incorrect. I have had several trees smothered by vines and some bent over until they broke. These were 20+ ft. tall trees. I eradicate vines any chance I get.

 

[Wood Duck]

Vines are an important part of the forest ecosystem. Most vines bear fruit that birds and wildlife eat, and vines create a lot of important habitat in the form of tangled vines up in trees, the vines along tree trunks, etc. On the other hand vines can inhibit the growth of trees, especially smaller trees that may be overgrown with vines. Vines are a natural part of the forests throughout the east, and in particular in the southeast vines are common.

In general vines on the trunks of large trees do no harm and I leave them. In North America we have no vines that are parasites, the vines are just holding on to the tree to get up into the sunshine. Virginia Creeper, Poison Ivy, and trumpet Creeper all tend to grow along trunk and major branches where they don't shade the leaves of the tree and don't do harm.

Vines that are growing over the tops of trees, especially smaller trees, can inhibit or kill the tree. Remove the vine if you want the tree to grow better. Grapes are one type of vine that will scramble over trees in some situations. Kudzu is another.

Along the edges of the woods you will find lots of vines hanging over trees. I typically leave these vines for the birds because the trees won't become good timber anyway - there is usually a reason why the edge of the woods is the edge (there is a road, field, whatever) so the trees wouldn't have space to grow anyway.

By removing all of the vines you would have a negative impact on wildlife, Lots of birds and game eat the fruit of vines and use vines for cover. For example, I have often seen Ruffed Grouse roosting in tangles of grape vine. Ok, in fact I have not seen them roosting, I have heard them burst out of the vines while I am looking the other way.

 

[SawDawg]

My property...

 

[Lcback]

Vines are an important part of the forest ecosystem. Most vines bear fruit that birds and wildlife eat, and vines create a lot of important habitat in the form of tangled vines up in trees, the vines along tree trunks, etc. On the other hand vines can inhibit the growth of trees, especially smaller trees that may be overgrown with vines. Vines are a natural part of the forests throughout the east, and in particular in the southeast vines are common.

In general vines on the trunks of large trees do no harm and I leave them. In North America we have no vines that are parasites, the vines are just holding on to the tree to get up into the sunshine. Virginia Creeper, Poison Ivy, and trumpet Creeper all tend to grow along trunk and major branches where they don't shade the leaves of the tree and don't do harm.

Vines that are growing over the tops of trees, especially smaller trees, can inhibit or kill the tree. Remove the vine if you want the tree to grow better. Grapes are one type of vine that will scramble over trees in some situations. Kudzu is another.

Along the edges of the woods you will find lots of vines hanging over trees. I typically leave these vines for the birds because the trees won't become good timber anyway - there is usually a reason why the edge of the woods is the edge (there is a road, field, whatever) so the trees wouldn't have space to grow anyway.

By removing all of the vines you would have a negative impact on wildlife, Lots of birds and game eat the fruit of vines and use vines for cover. For example, I have often seen Ruffed Grouse roosting in tangles of grape vine. Ok, in fact I have not seen them roosting, I have heard them burst out of the vines while I am looking the other way.

While we are in the topic. You seem like a good guy to ask. We have a lot of grape vines. While walking the edge of my property last night I noticed a medium size hickory that has a grape vine pulling down one of the lower limbs. Would you cut it off? Or just leaves it? This is a mostly straight tall hikckory. Until 5 years ago it was in the woods not on the edge.
I am hoping for more ruffled grouse around here. I have probably only seen 3 in 10 years hunting hunting, so I can't bring myself to shoot them anyway.
And the stocked pheasants are dumber then bricks.

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[billb3]

The only vine I've seen actually girdle a tree damaging it is wisteria.

 

[Longstreet]

The first full page of Google results for "kudzu root", which is where I figured you'd have to focus to eradicate it, are all about the health benefits of kudzu.

On and on about kudzu being the cure for everything.

I don't know a ton about kudzu, but i doo know it's a legume in the pea/bean family. That's one reason it's so vigorous - it adds its own nitrogen to the soil. In the nutrient depleted soils of the south that feature allows it to out compete must plants.

It is very useful for erosion control.

It is a pea so i can see why some ppl would eat it. I bet it odd cheap as heck to grow.

 

[StihlKicking]

So I was counting my blessings earlier that I don't have kudzu to deal with. Then I noticed a patch of it at the end of my road. About 1000' from my property.

To start understanding it and hopefully find a way to nip it in the bud if I start seeing it at my place I hit up Google. The first full page of Google results for "kudzu root", which is where I figured you'd have to focus to eradicate it, are all about the health benefits of kudzu.

On and on about kudzu being the cure for everything. Then on to Wikipedia I found what I was looking for, "Mechanical methods of control involve cutting off crowns from roots, usually just below ground level. This immediately kills the plant." Good to know I have an option if I don't want get into the kudzu health supplement business.

I have pretty extensive experience with kudzu eradication. It is usually part of my yearly work plan. At the first sight of kudzu on your property I would advise you to hit it early and hard with oust extra or tordon. These are expensive chemicals to apply but not terrible if your talking about a 1000 square feet or so. All mechanical means of kudzu control I have ever witnessed are only a band aide and before you know it you will have acres of the stuff. In my climate kudzu can grow well over a foot a day. Once you have acres of this stuff you will have to spend thousands of dollars to get rid of it.


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