Vogelzang or Stotz barrel stove kits....

[SidecarFlip]

Been kicking around putting a double barrel stove kit in my garage/shop on the unheated side where the farm tractors live all winter. I have lots of wood, everything under 8" I chip for mulch but I have piles of saw logs over 8" that I usually give away that I could roast handily.

Are they good heaters and should I line the bottom of the lower barrel with firebrick to prevent burn out and/or employ a grate of some sort? No issue with a flue, there is a tile lined block flue on the backside of the building.

Any inpout would be appreciated. I want to stay cheap as this will be an ocassional use item.

 

[pen]

Just as a caveat before you begin, check with the insurance company to make sure that they are OK with you having a solid fuel burning appliance in an out building that will have gasoline stored in it. Would hate to see you have a claim, for whatever reason, and have them try to deny it because of a heating appliance they would not approve.

That said, I've burned in barrel stoves with the old school Sotz door and the vogelzang that is more readily available today,,,, long story short, the sotz door is better built (much better latch) and allows the air into the stove in a way that works for a much better burn than the vogelzang, also held the fire / coals much longer. If you can find the sotz hardware, I would recommend that over the vogelzang equipment, hands down. Additionally, look around for barrels and make certain they are of good quality. Not all barrels are created equal.

Also, just because this isn't in a home and you are looking to do things on the cheap, make certain there is no compromise on the chimney system.

pen

 

[SidecarFlip]

Appreciate the response. No gasoline in the building, just diesel in the tractors and it's a large building. Not sure I can get a Sotz door kit, I'll have to check around.

 

[Simonkenton]

I had a Sotz 55 gallon double drum heater for 3 years. You ask if it is a good heater. Hell, yes it is!
250,000 BTUs. A huge firebox, 32 inches long. Door is 11 inches by 11 inches. Good God can you load a lot of wood into that beast. Light it up with dry wood, and then you can start loading green wood, it will eat up whatever you put in there.

You don't want to use a grate. Just put 3 or 4 inches of sand in the bottom, to keep the coals off the steel.
In the spring, you need to take the stove apart, and clean it out, and spray oil in that bottom drum, to keep it from rusting. Just dump the sand out and replace it in the fall. After three years of heavy use, there was no damage to my barrels. I know Sotz guys who have used the same barrels for 20 years.

It makes me sad that Sotz is out of business because that was a great stove, especially for an application like yours, a shop where you need a lot of heat and you have a lot of wood. See, the modern stoves are more efficient, they get much more heat out of a given pile of wood, than the old Sotz did.
If you will dig around on Craigslist nationwide a Sotz kit will pop up every now and then, you can get one for about fifty bucks.

And what do you know, here are two kits for $175. I just dug this up on craigslist. One kit is missing some parts, the other double drum kit is intact and the package has not been opened.

(broken link removed to http://stlouis.craigslist.org/app/4853010813.html)

Send your money in now, this is your lucky day, this ad went in just yesterday and I bet it won't last long. You can get the barrels for free, all you need is a jigsaw with a metal cutting blade, and a drill and a wrench, you can build your wood stove in an hour. Plus, need to paint the drums with high temp muffler paint.

The all time bad ass wood stove for 200 bucks, plus you have a bunch of extra parts.

I now have a real pretty modern, EPA approved Waterford wood stove, made in Ireland. Cost $1,300 in 1998. Glass doors so you can see the fire. I like this stove. It is beautiful. Has a little Irish castle cast into the iron side. But, from the time you light the stove, it takes 45 minutes to start getting any heat out of it. Also, it demands really dry wood.
With the Sotz, you light it up, and in about 5 minutes it is throwing a lot of heat. Perfect for occasional use like you want. You need dry wood to light your Sotz but it will burn fine with wood that is not so dry. My little Waterford is rated at 45,000 BTU, about 1/5 of the heat output of the Sotz. Also, the Waterford throws good heat for about 3 hours, then you gotta reload.
With the big Sotz, no problem getting a 10 hour burn. Easy to burn 10 hours with that giant fire box.
Hell, I would buy this Sotz kit and intall it myself in my new house, but, the fiancee hates the Sotz! She has told me that she would leave me if I ever got another Sotz. I gotta shell out $2,400 for a new Jotul, glass doors etc etc.
Women, go figure. I love the Sotz.

 

[Owen1508]

Hey SCF funny to see you outside the pellethead forum. I built a Double barrel kit just this year but I fileted the top barrel hinged it and use it as a smoke. regarding the bottom (fire) barrel what I did is line it with sand then lay the 9.5 x 4.5 firebrick longway across. Maybe overkill but the sand insulates the fire and helps set the brick (it took 7 really nice). The FB made it easier to scoop out the ash. Just my 2 cents. Good point above though about quaility of barrels, but I know you well enough to know that has crossed your mind already. Good luck I have some pics

 

[SidecarFlip]

Owen, life is more than a pellet/corn space heater...... I post on the chainsaw forum too. I may add a loop of pipe inside the upper barrel and add it to my PEX loop in the shop floor. Far as barrels go, we have good ones at the shop all the time, fixed and removeable head. I get a lot of wood here that I give away, might as well roast it.

I take it you used the Vogelzang stuff???

 

[RAVinMetrowest]

Just as a caveat before you begin, check with the insurance company to make sure that they are OK with you having a solid fuel burning appliance in an out building that will have gasoline stored in it. Would hate to see you have a claim, for whatever reason, and have them try to deny it because of a heating appliance they would not approve.

pen

x2 on the insurance 'narcs' on the garage stove. My FIL had them come down on him and he had to get rid of the stove he had for many years. He bought a used oil burning furnace, tapped into his existing oil line, and ran a piece of simple duct work for the output and exhaust.

 

[Owen1508]

Owen, life is more than a pellet/corn space heater...... I post on the chainsaw forum too. I may add a loop of pipe inside the upper barrel and add it to my PEX loop in the shop floor. Far as barrels go, we have good ones at the shop all the time, fixed and removeable head. I get a lot of wood here that I give away, might as well roast it.

I take it you used the Vogelzang stuff???

LOL No I used the USSC one. For the price I got it at it was just perfect ($0). I worked here when VG was a competitor so I favor USSC even though VG is owned by us. I've heard great thing about Sotz too...I think my barrels won't outlast the cast Iron parts, it is an outdoor smoker. I did use the deluxe door...better air inlets.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I figured the price was real good..... (one of these days I'm gonna call down there and give you some chit)... I wonder if I can install a water tube in the upper barrel and take some heat load off my HWH thats heating the floor in the main shop?

Sotz was located in North Ridgeville, Ohio right off US Route 82 about 5 miles from the farm I owned when I lived in Ohio. I was suprised they went belly up. Back then they had some big government contracts. Where did Vogelzang come from?

 

[pen]

This old sotz, had a lot of years of service before being turned into a smoker ( 30 plus) .

My experience with the vogelzang was that we used it to build the new unit...... Long story short, I wish we had just put new barrels on the sotz equipment...... Which might still happen, as with the old sotz door in place, it was nothing to leave the cabin at 3 or 4 pm on a Saturday and come back at 9am Sunday and start things back up with coals just by adding wood.

Since converting to the vogelzang, we better be back to camp by 10 or 11 pm to relight on coals...

Even with it burning though wood and coals faster, camp is colder.

These are simple units, but what is there today to replace what used to be, is missing the mark. The way the sotz door let air into the unit was much better than what the vogelzang setup can do.

pen

 

[BrotherBart]

I burned a single and later a double barrel VZ equipped one in the basement 30 years ago. After the brain surgery I took it outside and put racks in the top barrel and used it for a meat smoker.

Put sand in the bottom. What are the other questions?

Edit: The neat thing about barrel stoves is sometimes you can see how much wood is left in it by looking at the side of the barrel when it is red hot.

 

[pen]

I burned a single and later a double barrel VZ equipped one in the basement 30 years ago. After the brain surgery I took it outside and put racks in the top barrel and used it for a meat smoker.

Put sand in the bottom. What are the other questions?

None from me, other than the fact that you might have been more impressed with the sotz equipment.

That said, they still don't parallel to modern equipment (obviously) and it is a shame that what is available to build such units now, even with tougher environmental and insurance regs, that these poorer quality units can be on the market.

pen

 

[BrotherBart]

Amen my brother, amen. Most dangerous stove I have ever owned. But no sote in the chimney. That sucker burned so hot sote didn't have a chance.

 

[Owen1508]

Where did Vogelzang come from?

Started in 1974 by the Vogelzang family in Holland MI

 

[Owen1508]

I took it outside and put racks in the top barrel and used it for a meat smoker.

These work great as smokers

 

[Owen1508]

I figured the price was real good..... (one of these days I'm gonna call down there and give you some chit)... I wonder if I can install a water tube in the upper barrel and take some heat load off my HWH thats heating the floor in the main shop?

Remember this guys set up to heat a pool....wouldn't recommend it.

 

[Simonkenton]

Burned the barrel cherry red? Not the Sotz! Not if you followed instructions.
Sotz emphasized that this was an utterly airtight stove, and was never to be burned with the door open. With the simple but effective air intake you could precisely control the temp.

Sotz had a big instruction and construction manual, it was like several sheets of newspaper, in fact, I think it was called The Sotz News. In there they emphasized that the stove should never burn cherry red; if you did so, you would burn your barrel up.
My Sotz double drum heater never got cherry red.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Sounds like the Vogelzang leaks too much air and allows too fast a combustion rate. Not a good thing. I don't think I would ever have one in the basement, too close to wooden joists and such. In the shop, the trusses are way up there... at least 10 feet,

 

[Owen1508]

I guess it's all in the way you build it. The one I built I usually leave the feed door cracked about 2" to get a good burn If I shut the door open the air inlets it will smolder. I sealed the door to the barrel with RTV though, as well as the flue collar and the holes for the upper barrel supports. I control the temp with a damper between the two barrels. I can get the top barrel down to 100 and up to 600. I usually go for smoke and the wood is not properly seasoned. The cherry was standing dead for 3 years dropped and split for 4 months, the pecan wad dropped whole (about 24"-26" at the biggest) and kept round for 2 years+ I just slice off as I need to. I was an old 150 footer...I know I know, it put out a ton of pecans but was 5 feet from my home and was getting too dangerous during storms and had already caused some minor roof damage.

Edited: for my dumb typos

 

[SidecarFlip]

RTV is wonderful stuff.....

No large coil in the upper drum, just a simple. single U with a feedwater pump to push the cryotek to the existing system. Sounds to me like if you seal the Vogelzang kit properly, it works as well as the defunct Sotz. I suspect the devil is in the details.

I'll come up with something before next winter and I'm sure it will be complete with a tempering circuit for the existing PEX system and maybe a ambient HX or 2 in the circuit as well.

 

[Owen1508]

RTV is wonderful stuff.....

No large coil in the upper drum, just a simple. single U with a feedwater pump to push the cryotek to the existing system. Sounds to me like if you seal the Vogelzang kit properly, it works as well as the defunct Sotz. I suspect the devil is in the details.

I'll come up with something before next winter and I'm sure it will be complete with a tempering circuit for the existing PEX system and maybe a ambient HX or 2 in the circuit as well.

Used the USSC one remember lol
Not the Vogelzang....

 

[pen]

Sounds to me like if you seal the Vogelzang kit properly, it works as well as the defunct Sotz.

I disagree with that if you are talking this design

Maybe, the ones that are built like

are better. but I don't know.

In general, these let the air in to the stove at too low a position, IMO. The sotz let air in higher and burned much better,,,,, and you didn't run the risk of a small hot coal running out of the darn air inlet

Also, RTV, even the heat resistant, isn't designed for use on a stove. The temps they can handle aren't high enough. That is a job meant for furnace cement.

 

[Owen1508]

The bottom one IS THE one I have.

I used 600 +degree heat rated RTV.....worked fine on a smoker for the year... Don't know about as well as anything as I have only the one to compare.

If I used it on a stove design Yeah I would use Furnace cement or MilPac

 

[SidecarFlip]

I'd get the second one, if and when I get it. I'm looking for a Sotz and interestingly, the guy who bought all the Sotz inventory lives just north of me here in Michigan.

IMO, the legs on the USSC edition are much nicer. I'm out on the pipe collars

The Sotz design don't look all that hard to make actually. 2 dies (male and female) and some hardware and you'd be off to the races...