Wall Clearance, Spacers, Studs/Furring "Crazies"

[TinasArk]

Here’s my situation (apart from being a Newbie):

We just bought our first small boxwood stove, along with all the proper chimney and stovepipe; as well as 5 sheets of Durock.

We’re planning on putting this little guy in the LR and chimney it through the ceiling/roof. We’re going to make a slightly elevated hearth by building with 2x4's and layering plywood then Durock and then covering with reclaimed brick we have. We plan on stuccoing the 1” away from the wall clearance (including 1” at top and bottom), Durock. We want to be able to put this stove as close to the wall as is safely possible.

We have drywall (walls) and here’s where we get all mixed up...the SPACING!
• Do we simply use 1” ceramic spacers to attach the Durock directly to the drywall?
• Or, do we attach the Durock directly to the drywall using 1” studs/furring strips/metal studs?
• Do we need to have further support (plywood?) for mounting the Durock to the wall, to make it rigid/solid enough?
• Is there a particular requirement or suggestion for spacing the ceramic spacers or studs (i.e., 8”? 12” 16”?) between this clearance wall and the drywall?

My guy is really baffled about the wall clearance issue. He’s thinking 1” for ceramic spacers and 1” for furring strips/Durock studs = 2” plus. Is this making any sense to you? Am I making any sense???

I hope you can help and if so, I appreciate it in advance.

 

[fossil]

Tell us all about the stove...make, model, whatever. Post a pic if possible. There's a lot of planning to do to make your installation safe before you get all wrapped around how to fasten a heat shield to the wall. You've got a lot of minimum required clearances to combustible materials and hearth insulative properties to worry about, and even whether or not the stove manufacturer provides for clearance reduction using shielding. We can help a lot, but we need more info. You said a "Boxwood" stove, is this a Vogelzang? Rick

 

[TinasArk]

Yes Rick, it's a Vogelzang BX26E Cast Iron Boxwood Stove. http://www.vogelzang.com/bx26e.htm

 

[fossil]

You have to default to all the provisions of NFPA 211. You can reduce that 36" clearance, through the use of properly constructed and installed shielding, by up to 66% (down to 12"), but no further. That clearance is measured from the combustible wall material to the stove, as if the shield wasn't there. The shield can be made a number of different ways. The hearth on which the stove sits is going to have to comply with NFPA 211 as well. I, or any number of other folks here, can give you all the specifics if you don't have access to a copy of the standard. Don't do anything until you know exactly how to do it correctly to protect yourselves and your home. Rick

 

[TinasArk]

Great, thank you. I checked online for NFPA 211 info. You say you may be able to assist me with reading that information?

PS...Rick, is this the information you're referring to?: Here’s a document from USG on how to build an NFPA 211 wallshield out of durock cement board:
(broken link removed to http://tinyurl.com/nmmt3)

 

[fossil]

That's information from USG, the manufacturer of Durock brand cement board, explaining how their product can be used to construct and install a heat shield that will meet the requirements of NFPA 211. I'm talking about the source document, the NFPA 211 Standard itself, a copy of which is on the table in front of me. If you'd like to know what it says about floor and wall protection, I'll be happy to look it up and tell you. I gotta say that those Vogelzang stoves are not very highly regarded appliances around here. Probably made overseas, questionable workmanship and casting quality, not UL listed nor EPA approved, not efficient in terms of fuel consumption, and not clean burning. I, personally, wouldn't have one in my home, but if you're gonna install it, I'll do whatever I can to help you do that safely. Rick

 

[TinasArk]

I gotta say that those Vogelzang stoves are not very highly regarded appliances around here. Probably made overseas, questionable workmanship and casting quality, not UL listed nor EPA approved, not efficient in terms of fuel consumption, and not clean burning. I, personally, wouldn’t have one in my home...

:/ well that's a bummer. Any suggestions on a safer stove that won't kill the pocketbook????

PS...I just pm'd you

 

[fossil]

Depends on the square footage you're wanting to heat, and the wintertime climates you expect, and how your home is constructed, and how well insulated it is, and...well...a bunch of stuff. Where are you in the Land of Enchantment? I lived in ABQ 1974-1977, graduated from UNM. I know there's actual winter there. There are many fine well-built small woodstoves. You can't go wrong with an Englander...quality, performance, and price. There are folks on this forum who own & burn just about every stove there is. You can try using the search function and see if you get anywhere with that. There's also a stove review section. In any case, I'm afraid you're not going to find anything as cheap as that Vogelzang...but you get what you pay for. Rick

 

[TinasArk]

I'm at around 6800 feet. I'm checking stove reviews as you suggested. In the meantime, did you check your personal messages yet? I sent you one.

 

[fossil]

Hasn't shown up yet, but if you promise not to tell anyone, I'll tell you my real e-mail address:

HA! No, I won't! :coolsmile:

 

[TinasArk]

Just emailed you, because HAH, yes you did! ...sshhhhhhhh Thanks!

 

[TinasArk]

"fossil" has been very helpful for me "behind the scenes", however...

I’m going to continue posting in “my” thread, because there may be other’s who have the same thoughts, questions and concerns and can learn from my situation, right?

The bottom line (this year) is this...we’ve spent hundreds of dollars on the proper chimney and pipe (spared no expense there). The last thing I'd want is for my home to burn down. I'm sure there's PLENTY of people out there who can't even afford to do that much (no offense to them)! At this point, the V-BX26E boxwood was all we could afford.

So I'm approaching this as safely as I can. I’m going to line it with sand and lay fire brick down and top with the grate. I don’t think I mentioned that this stove is simply to take the chill out of the LR air, with one log at a time (while we're watching TV and such) when the temps get down below the 20’s.

I wish I could afford the most groan’en stove now, but I can’t. So I’m not going to feel bad about doing the best that I can in my current situation. Right? Right!

Tina

 

[cannonballcobb]

If possible, you might be able to return your Vogelzang and for just a hundred or two more, find a used stove on craigslist or ebay?

If not, don't worry, your Vogelzang will put out the heat. My friend has one and it burns hot; just be prepared to go through a lot of wood as they're not very efficient.

 

[crazy_dan]

duh, what kind/model VOGELZANG?

If you would have read the very first post it says "Boxwood" just like this one
http://www.vogelzang.com/bx26e.htm

 

[crazy_dan]

I am sure fossil is giving you as much or more help than I would be able to and from his other posts he does seem to kn ow what he is talking about.

I do know some people that heat their homes with some of those cast iron Vogelzang stoves, Not the box wood, but the pot belly ones. they are a step up from a barrel stove but just a step. If that is all you have and can afford right now then you can use it Carefully, Also you might want to give you insurance a call to see what their requirements are as a lot of company's require at least UL certification.

 

[TinasArk]

Thank you CannonBallCobb and Crazy_Dan...

I've looked on eBay already and for some reason, I'm not comfortable with purchasing a wood burning stove from there. The shipping is a killer, too!

Our insurance company is certainly going to be notified.

For a better idea of what we have going: Our home is Ranch Style (loooooooooong and narrow) and at the opposite end from the LR are two bedrooms. Under those two rooms is a full blown basement with a large wood burning stove set up (already existing when we purchased our home, over a year ago). Even though there's a blower/duct that runs under the house from the basement to the LR floor vent, it looses A LOT of heat along the way (as you can well imagine).

Again, we just want a bit of heat in the LR until we go to bed...I believe one log an evening will suffice.

I really appreciate all your replies,
Tina

 

[TinasArk]

We're coming along very nicely with our work here. We completed the ceiling/roof chimney this past weekend (what a BLAST!), as well as the metal framing for our 1.5" clearance wall (Durock comes next).

I have an additional question…

Which of these medium’s (Stucco? Cement? Mortar? Something Else?) do you feel is a good application to my metal studded, Durock covered clearance wall?
I’m looking for good heat protection medium which I can add some color to (thinking of exteme high heat paint), and something which I can work Southwestern Petroglyph imprints into.

Tina

 

[TinasArk]

Hi All!

A small update for all you kind people who took the time to help us out with our Vogelzang Boxwood BX26E (or insert your favorite "slam" term for this cheap little stove) woodstove install...

I wanted to let you know that we're doing our first burn today. While it does have a smell like ironing a Polyester or Rayon shirt it's tolerable. I have an exhaust fan in the window 4 feet away drawing the odor out, for the most part.

We've taken over 300 photos of building the entire set-up. I'll post in the photo thread later.

Thank You All Once Again,
Tina

 

[TinasArk]

That stove is not Ul listed. It can not be installed in habitable space. It say as such in its listing.

ElkiMeg, While I appreciate your concern, I'm wondering which listing would this be that you're referring to, regarding the "habitable" space? I'd like to see that please.

BTW, Vogelzang BX26E Installation Instructions State: DO NOT USE THIS STOVE IN A MOBILE HOME, MANUFACTURED HOME, TRAILER OR TENT – NO EXCEPTIONS! ~ I don't live in any of these.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

nfpa 211 does provide constraints for "unlisted" appliances clearances of 36" in all directions i think 18 inches (i havent looked it up going from memory) floor protection in all directions and other considerations , but "elk" has raised one important question , will your homeowners allow you coverage with an "unlisted" stove. check before you install with your insurer. could save a headache later

as a side note , VZ has apparantly added a line of epa phase2 certified units to their product line , i applaud them for that and i'd love to see them progress towards only selling listed products , would be better for them in the long run. the new plate steel stoves are actually nice looking units.

 

[oconnor]

TinasArk

I think the main thing is that those of us here want you to be well informed about the risk management you are undertaking. In buying and installing a non UL listed stove, you have a unit that is not tested, or has failed testing, by a lab designated to ensure items we use in our daily lives don't hurt us. In Canada, CSA/ULC are our equivilant. Every light bulb, extension cord, Christmas light string, small appliance has to pass these tests to be sold for use, and when the testing is later determined to faulty (a latent fault appears that wasn't caught in testing) these products are recalled. For whatever reason, governments haven't put thier foot down with wood stoves like they have with other consumer products, and you can still by products that aren't UL tested.

Installing that product and using it is risk management - you assume a risk (fire outside the stove) to avoid another risk (debt/ not being able to by another essential item). You assumed this risk because you decided to by a stove to begin with, because you presumably wanted a better (cheaper, maybe enviromentally preffered by you) heat source, but stoves do present a higher risk to the user (burns on my forearms from loading, bugs in my porch from wood).

In a free society, you can assume risk. Consequences are - your insurer is not likely to allow you to remain insured (they really like UL certification. In Canada, they require a WETT certified tech to install a stove, and a WETT tech is not permitted to install an unlisted stove), you are not getting an ideal product (your stove is EPA exempt, because it uses so much wood, the don't really consider it to be an effective heater).

In the balance of risks, your stove is going to raise your insurance costs, if not rule out the option of insurance, and burn a lot more wood (33 - 50% more per BTU created some say) than a moderately more expensive ($200 range) EPA approved unit. Those costs don't add up to me.

General rule of thumb - don't assume unbalanced/unneccesary risks

These risks seem unbalanced to me, but you are the one who must assume the risk.

 

[TinasArk]

Thank you both ElkiMeg, Mike and Brent...

I'm very aware of the cautions demanded of any person burning wood in their home, and I appreciate your concern/s, truly I do! I don't know if you took the time to read this entire thread as much information was already touched on in it. Our insurance company was notified as we said we would. Because of the materials we used and the amount of detail and care we put into the construction of our clearance wall and hearth (we did complete overkill and offer GREAT BIG THANKS to those who helped from this great site!), we had no Insurance issues.

I know the Vogelzang is not regarded in any kind of high esteem, here (to put it mildly). On the other hand, I also know that there are many people who may not be able to afford more than a cheapo stove at some point. Many people from Hearth.com itself have emailed me personally to let me know of their great experiences with Vogelzang's (they didn't dare post those compliments here in Hearth.com)! I think it's important to share all of this experience with people.

Next season we get a hand me down Englander from a relative. Until then, it's the Vogelzang.