Hello all, this is my first post and hopefully the start of a great journey of heating independence! Let me preface this by saying I'm not one of those "hip to go green" liberals that seem to be jumping the bandwagon, but a regular blue collar guy that grew up in a home that was heated by wood stove. I know the long hard work it takes to cut, haul, split and stack wood as I've spent many days of childhood doing it. I also have a well maintained F-250 diesel 4x4, 16ft. 12K trailer, Stihl 039, and access to a log splitter, all of which I am good at using : ). Well enough about me, lets get the questions going. First off, my house is fairly small (1600 sq. ft.), very well insulated, and currently heated by an OLD oil furnace. The furnace works but is due to be replaced so I am hoping to get away from oil all together. I have duct work in my basement that oil furnace is hooked to that could be adapted to dispurse the wood stove heat. I also have a brick and mortar chimney that the oil furnace vents into, how do I know if it's rated for a wood stove? I am considering the Englander 28-3500 (http://www.englanderstoves.com/28-3500.html) because it appears it would meet my needs, I can pick it up at Home Depot and save on shipping, and it will work stand alone without the furnace (I e-mailed Englander and they verified I do not need the furnace). What do you guys think? Also, I have access to probably two cords of wood a year that I can cut and haul, after that I would have to purchase. I've heard you can go to a logger and get a "loggers cord" that is basically just lugs that you would cut and split that is MUCH cheaper than buying it done. Do any of you do this? Sorry for all the questions, I like to have ALL my bases covered before I "run".
Want to convert to wood heating, advice needed.
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Vic99
Minister of Fire
Welcome!
First, start cutting, splitting, and stacking RIGHT NOW. You'll need as much as you can get for your first season. If you are working with oak, maple, hickory, or black birch (and other very dense species), you're looking at 1.5 to 2 years to season. You can get around that by bucking and splitting those species into small splits.
Second, contary to what you might have heard, you CAN burn pine and other softwoods. As long as it is seasoned you'll have no issue with creosite that you would not have from another species. Don't turn away pine if you are just starting out. I like pine and use it to get the temperature of my stove up quickly. Some people have no choice but to burn softwoods.
Pine burns hotter and faster, so don't load the fire box with it. Experiement.
Third, read all that you can here. Most people give very good advice. We are moving toward a slow part of the posting season. Be patient.
Fourth, when trying to build up your wood supply, put the word out to EVERYONE that you are looking for wood. You'll be surprised what comes your way. The other side of that is don't turn down free wood or else people will stop offering. The exception I make is if someone asks me to take down a tree that is near a house/shed, etc.
Fifth, ideally stack wood that is already split in the sun and wind. Uncover the top when the heavy spring rains stop and keep that way until the autumn rains hit. Don't cover the sides. To be fair, so disagree about when/if to cover wood at all.
Other people will chime in about stove/furnance/insert stuff.
Good luck.
First, start cutting, splitting, and stacking RIGHT NOW. You'll need as much as you can get for your first season. If you are working with oak, maple, hickory, or black birch (and other very dense species), you're looking at 1.5 to 2 years to season. You can get around that by bucking and splitting those species into small splits.
Second, contary to what you might have heard, you CAN burn pine and other softwoods. As long as it is seasoned you'll have no issue with creosite that you would not have from another species. Don't turn away pine if you are just starting out. I like pine and use it to get the temperature of my stove up quickly. Some people have no choice but to burn softwoods.
Pine burns hotter and faster, so don't load the fire box with it. Experiement.
Third, read all that you can here. Most people give very good advice. We are moving toward a slow part of the posting season. Be patient.
Fourth, when trying to build up your wood supply, put the word out to EVERYONE that you are looking for wood. You'll be surprised what comes your way. The other side of that is don't turn down free wood or else people will stop offering. The exception I make is if someone asks me to take down a tree that is near a house/shed, etc.
Fifth, ideally stack wood that is already split in the sun and wind. Uncover the top when the heavy spring rains stop and keep that way until the autumn rains hit. Don't cover the sides. To be fair, so disagree about when/if to cover wood at all.
Other people will chime in about stove/furnance/insert stuff.
Good luck.
Welcome to Hearth!
If I'm reading your OP correctly, it sounds like you might want to ditch the oil furnace. If so I'd like to mention that you really should have a traditional form of central heating in the house if for no other reason than to have heat while nobody is around to tend to the fire, such as when you're traveling. Also, without a good traditional central heating system in the house, the resale value of your home is DRASTICALLY reduced. So while it might not be used much, you really should consider addressing the basic central heating system before going over to a green/secondary heating system, especially since oil and NG are cheap now and there isn't as much to be saved with burning wood.
With that said, Englander makes good stuff. If their 28-3500 looks like it would fit your needs, I doubt you'd be unhappy with it.
Regarding wood, if you are planning on doing the majority of your heating with wood, plan on using a lot more than 2 cords a year. With a very efficient stove I suspect you could get away with 3 cords a year to heat a 1600 sq ft house nicely. If using a less efficient wood furnace, I would think you could go through as much as 5 or 6 cords, depending on your house and heating needs.
A lot of guys buy log length wood and process it themselves. Generally speaking, logs run about $100 a cord. Right now there are a lot of guys hurting and looking for cash so it's not uncommon for folks to be selling CSD wood for $150 a cord or less... making it very tempting to pay someone else the little extra money for the pre-processed wood. As Vic mentioned, make sure you have wood seasoning NOW for burning this coming season. Don't depend on anyone selling you truly seasoned wood, it rarely happens.
Good luck.
If I'm reading your OP correctly, it sounds like you might want to ditch the oil furnace. If so I'd like to mention that you really should have a traditional form of central heating in the house if for no other reason than to have heat while nobody is around to tend to the fire, such as when you're traveling. Also, without a good traditional central heating system in the house, the resale value of your home is DRASTICALLY reduced. So while it might not be used much, you really should consider addressing the basic central heating system before going over to a green/secondary heating system, especially since oil and NG are cheap now and there isn't as much to be saved with burning wood.
With that said, Englander makes good stuff. If their 28-3500 looks like it would fit your needs, I doubt you'd be unhappy with it.
Regarding wood, if you are planning on doing the majority of your heating with wood, plan on using a lot more than 2 cords a year. With a very efficient stove I suspect you could get away with 3 cords a year to heat a 1600 sq ft house nicely. If using a less efficient wood furnace, I would think you could go through as much as 5 or 6 cords, depending on your house and heating needs.
A lot of guys buy log length wood and process it themselves. Generally speaking, logs run about $100 a cord. Right now there are a lot of guys hurting and looking for cash so it's not uncommon for folks to be selling CSD wood for $150 a cord or less... making it very tempting to pay someone else the little extra money for the pre-processed wood. As Vic mentioned, make sure you have wood seasoning NOW for burning this coming season. Don't depend on anyone selling you truly seasoned wood, it rarely happens.
Good luck.
I bought log-length wood the past two years, and processed it by myself and with my boys. It's great work to do together. If you factor in the value of your time, it may not be worth it. However, for me, the labor is nothing but pure pleasure given that I work in front of a computer screen much of the time. The log-length wood comes out to about half the cost, but this year I'm hoping to build up my stack with free wood from the December Ice Storm here in New England.
I'll second the opinion that you should keep the old furnace as "backup." There may be some really super cold nights where your stove can't keep up and you'll be happy to have the furnace there to help out. Then there are those days when you want to be gone and need something to keep the temps up.
People say that you shouldn't share the flue between an oil furnace and a wood stove. I'm not sure why that is, so if that's your plan, you'd have to look into that.
I'll second the opinion that you should keep the old furnace as "backup." There may be some really super cold nights where your stove can't keep up and you'll be happy to have the furnace there to help out. Then there are those days when you want to be gone and need something to keep the temps up.
People say that you shouldn't share the flue between an oil furnace and a wood stove. I'm not sure why that is, so if that's your plan, you'd have to look into that.
Most likely someone will ask about your insurance carrier`s policy on traditional heating vs wood. I`v read it here but have no personel knowledge. If you must maintain your oil furnace for backup (which I recommend), you could consider an add-on wood furnace that ties into your duct work. It will mean more expense, but offer the benefit of a well heated house. More wood but easier processing perhaps. Not sure that code and insurance wont require seperate liners for the oil burner and stove. Not sure that both can or will fit into the same chimney.Freestanding unit upstairs may be your most cost effecient route.
If I read your post correctly, you only have the one chimney. You can't use one flue for both the oil furnace and the wood furnace. I think there is one exception yukon has a line that are combo - wood / oil furnaces that use one flue (I could be wrong, maybe harman makes one that shares a flue, maybe others, I just know of any).
This is a big consideration, make sure you research the flue issue, and it makes the furnace much more expensive. If you don't have to share the flue, then your options are much more open.
This is a big consideration, make sure you research the flue issue, and it makes the furnace much more expensive. If you don't have to share the flue, then your options are much more open.
The chimney/back up furnace problem could be solved with a powervented or direct vented furnace. I looked at the combo furnaces and they are the way to but they are too expensive. They are five plus thousand dollars versus 1200 for a wood furnace and a 1000 for a gas furnace. Through in the extra vent work and it's still cheaper
There is a great booh....the backyard lumberjack......that address the harvesting......processing....and use of wood for heat. The book brushes on the heating equiptment but, the information on the wood end is priceless.
Mike
Mike
I forgot to mention, I do have a back up heat source. I currently have a set of vented propane fire logs in my basement that will heat the whole house. I know because I've had to use it on several occasions where we lost power. They could be used to keep the house warm enough for the pipes not to freeze should we go on an extended winter trip (though we rarely do). I'm not concerned with loosing resale one the home since Lord willing this will be our last. We bought our dream home to live and raise our kids in, we have no intention of leaving any time soon. Regarding the chimney, I have heard that I can not use it for both the furnace and the wood stove. I am looking at doing away with the furnace all together and then it would be used EXCLUSIVELY for the stove. Would this work or will the chemical reaction still break down the chimney? Also, I'm not looking to go this route to save a buck (that will be a nice bonus), I'm looking at becoming more self sufficient in these turbulant times. In this day and age of all the "stuff", my wife and I are looking to simplify our lives. It's time to get back to our roots....
This is what I'm working with:
This is what I'm working with:
I have a similar setup on ours. The clean out door is where I collect the junk from the flue after I have added copious amounts of TSP to the fires. The brown stains on the wall are of concern.
Mike
Mike
Slopar, you'll need a pro's eyes on the flue. It could be usable with a liner. After the furnace is removed, it'll at least need to be cleaned and inspected first. Yes, that is the cleanout door for the flue. Looks like some rain might have been getting down there. Is there a cap on the current flue?
Will you still have a backup source of heat other than wood? Stuff happens. It's important to have something that can heat the house to some degree in case you are called away or sick. Think of freezing pipes if nothing else. As an alternative, you might be able to power-vent the furnace or get a high-efficiency condensing unit that exhausts out the side of the house via a PVC vent pipe. Also, there are combo-fuel furnaces that are set up to heat with wood and/or gas or oil on one flue.
The Englander is an add-on wood furnace. It should do a good job of heating in the dead of winter, but I suspect it will need daily, smaller fires in fall and spring. It would be good to ask the folks that own them. Post the question in the boiler room forum here to contact some wood furnace folks for advice. Burning in a furnace is a bit different than burning in a stove.
Also, there are some alternative models to look at like Yukon-Eagle, Charmaster, Clayton, etc. that are worth looking into if you are going try to heat exclusively with wood.
http://www.yukon-eagle.com/
http://www.charmaster.com/about.html
http://www.usstove.com/cgi-bin/csvsearchProdindivid.pl?ID=124
Will you still have a backup source of heat other than wood? Stuff happens. It's important to have something that can heat the house to some degree in case you are called away or sick. Think of freezing pipes if nothing else. As an alternative, you might be able to power-vent the furnace or get a high-efficiency condensing unit that exhausts out the side of the house via a PVC vent pipe. Also, there are combo-fuel furnaces that are set up to heat with wood and/or gas or oil on one flue.
The Englander is an add-on wood furnace. It should do a good job of heating in the dead of winter, but I suspect it will need daily, smaller fires in fall and spring. It would be good to ask the folks that own them. Post the question in the boiler room forum here to contact some wood furnace folks for advice. Burning in a furnace is a bit different than burning in a stove.
Also, there are some alternative models to look at like Yukon-Eagle, Charmaster, Clayton, etc. that are worth looking into if you are going try to heat exclusively with wood.
http://www.yukon-eagle.com/
http://www.charmaster.com/about.html
http://www.usstove.com/cgi-bin/csvsearchProdindivid.pl?ID=124
If your basement isn't living space i would just leave the oil furnace as is and add a new flue and stove upstairs . 1600 feet is easy to heat with a medim size stove .
and you will burn a lot less wood .
I don't think your pipes will freeze in the basement . I live in NY and i don't heat my basement and have never had a freeze up .
I cut lots of trees my self but can get 30 yards of cut rounds for 250/350 depending on the season. I'm not sure how 30 yards compares to a log truck 28x 8x 6 .Its a big pile of wood when its split. John
t
and you will burn a lot less wood .
I don't think your pipes will freeze in the basement . I live in NY and i don't heat my basement and have never had a freeze up .
I cut lots of trees my self but can get 30 yards of cut rounds for 250/350 depending on the season. I'm not sure how 30 yards compares to a log truck 28x 8x 6 .Its a big pile of wood when its split. John
t
Good advice wellbuilt. I agree that would be a lot more straight-forward and my choice. However, on the subject of basements, every home differs and many are not well built or earth-bermed, insulated, etc.. A lot of basements are leaky (cold and air wise) and will freeze pipes in cold weather if left unheated.
Slopar: Go after that Heatng Independence!!I Love it!! You will be enjoying more than I, for I havn`t found my dream house,,,congrats
I have read many threads discussing basements being less than ideal locations for stoves, as far as usable heat. Reasons given, have referred to concrete floors and walls robbing so much heat. You also talked of utilizing your duct work, and again I`ve read where stoves just are not putting out the heat , say like a furnace flame does,,and mixed in with the volumne and length of air flow through these ducts,,,leaves less than desirable temps on the other end. A little extra work burning from a basement,,but the mess is down there. You were not sure about the brick ratings, but none the less,,,coming from the basement to a heighth above your peak , may well create a draft problem if the exhaust is any size other than recommended by the manufacturer. So a 6"or 8" liners cost would be cheaper installed on the first floor. Good that you have the propane for back-up (one problem perhaps solved) Where is that chimney on the first floor?? Does it by chance serve to vent a water heater or kitchen item? Just more opinions to think on :blank: By the way,,,what the heck did you pull on that trailer??? :-/ Sounds like a winters supply in one load 
I have read many threads discussing basements being less than ideal locations for stoves, as far as usable heat. Reasons given, have referred to concrete floors and walls robbing so much heat. You also talked of utilizing your duct work, and again I`ve read where stoves just are not putting out the heat , say like a furnace flame does,,and mixed in with the volumne and length of air flow through these ducts,,,leaves less than desirable temps on the other end. A little extra work burning from a basement,,but the mess is down there. You were not sure about the brick ratings, but none the less,,,coming from the basement to a heighth above your peak , may well create a draft problem if the exhaust is any size other than recommended by the manufacturer. So a 6"or 8" liners cost would be cheaper installed on the first floor. Good that you have the propane for back-up (one problem perhaps solved) Where is that chimney on the first floor?? Does it by chance serve to vent a water heater or kitchen item? Just more opinions to think on :blank: By the way,,,what the heck did you pull on that trailer??? :-/ Sounds like a winters supply in one load The chimney access is located in the basement which is why I want to keep it down there (plus the mess factor). The chimney currently only vents the oil furnace. Man, I feel like more folks here are trying to talk me out of going with wood heat than are trying to talk me into doing it! : ) Putting the wood stove on the on the first floor is not going to happen because I don't want to run a separate flue in addition to my chimney. If I did that, just because of my house layout it would have to run side by side with my exsisting chimney, and that seems crazy to me. I am still having a hard time understanding why it's going to be so hard to heat my 1600 sq. ft. house from the finished basement when my 80 year old grandfather is still heating his 4000 sq. ft. house with a free standing cast iron stove he built himself in 1950 something. At this point I'm about ready to toss in the towel and just keep what I got. As far as the trailer, I picked it up for a steal from an equipment rental business that used it to haul track loader and skid steers. They bent two crossmembers so I cut them out and welded in new ones. Good as new, it even had brand new tires and brakes : )ml said:Where is that chimney on the first floor?? Does it by chance serve to vent a water heater or kitchen item? Just more opinions to think on :blank: By the way,,,what the heck did you pull on that trailer??? :-/ Sounds like a winters supply in one load
We are trying to talk you out of this, you might take our wood!!
I think we did not have all of your info, like what you were planning to do for backup (keep old furnace, use something we didn't know about), the plans for putting it in the basement, vs other options.... And I think you were getting a lot of options and opinions which you need to expect when you ask for advise - 10 people = 9 opinions + 1 person ordering pizza, also possible fistfight, depends on if chainsaws are mentioned or not.
The englander sounds like it would work, I wish mine had a glass door.
Step 1. Get a professional out to look at your chimney. Let an expert tell you if you can use it how it is, or if you need to line it, or it it is just not feasible. Without that info, you can't really proceed.
After you get that info (and costs if you have to line it) then install the englander.
I also think 2 cords of wood is 1/2 what you will need the first year (this is a pure guess, but the first year is the big learning curve, you will burn more, and your wood will probably not be as dry as you think it is). I think you should try to have at least 4 or maybe even 5 or 6 cords of burnable wood available to you for next winter. If you have too much .... wait there is no such thing as too much wood.
Good luck.
I think we did not have all of your info, like what you were planning to do for backup (keep old furnace, use something we didn't know about), the plans for putting it in the basement, vs other options.... And I think you were getting a lot of options and opinions which you need to expect when you ask for advise - 10 people = 9 opinions + 1 person ordering pizza, also possible fistfight, depends on if chainsaws are mentioned or not.
The englander sounds like it would work, I wish mine had a glass door.
Step 1. Get a professional out to look at your chimney. Let an expert tell you if you can use it how it is, or if you need to line it, or it it is just not feasible. Without that info, you can't really proceed.
After you get that info (and costs if you have to line it) then install the englander.
I also think 2 cords of wood is 1/2 what you will need the first year (this is a pure guess, but the first year is the big learning curve, you will burn more, and your wood will probably not be as dry as you think it is). I think you should try to have at least 4 or maybe even 5 or 6 cords of burnable wood available to you for next winter. If you have too much .... wait there is no such thing as too much wood.
Good luck.
Vic99
Minister of Fire
"I am still having a hard time understanding why it’s going to be so hard to heat my 1600 sq. ft. house from the finished basement . . . "
A lot of people here talk about negative pressure in the basement and having a tough time getting warm air to circulate up to the primary living space. Perhaps that will not the case with your basement. Many people here have complained that it is not as easy as they thought. I imagine it would be even harder for someone with a two story house above the basement. Unfortunately I cannot speak from experience, I have a wood stove on the first floor.
I would do a search on this site with "basement heating" or something similar. Some people have floor plans in their threads and maybe that will also help. Good luck.
A lot of people here talk about negative pressure in the basement and having a tough time getting warm air to circulate up to the primary living space. Perhaps that will not the case with your basement. Many people here have complained that it is not as easy as they thought. I imagine it would be even harder for someone with a two story house above the basement. Unfortunately I cannot speak from experience, I have a wood stove on the first floor.
I would do a search on this site with "basement heating" or something similar. Some people have floor plans in their threads and maybe that will also help. Good luck.
Vic99
Minister of Fire
. . . and start getting all the wood you can now.
By the way, many people have ordered "seasoned wood" in the fall and have been disappointed. Order your seasoned wood now! Then stack it off of the ground. That way you'll know that it has been drying for 6 months in your yard. Any "seasoning" the wood guy did is a bonus. You might find that right around now prices are better for wood than in the fall when demand increases.
Most of us have dealt with less than ideal circumstances our first year. There is a learning curve to how much wood you go through, operation of a new stove, etc.
By the way, many people have ordered "seasoned wood" in the fall and have been disappointed. Order your seasoned wood now! Then stack it off of the ground. That way you'll know that it has been drying for 6 months in your yard. Any "seasoning" the wood guy did is a bonus. You might find that right around now prices are better for wood than in the fall when demand increases.
Most of us have dealt with less than ideal circumstances our first year. There is a learning curve to how much wood you go through, operation of a new stove, etc.
I don't think any one is trying to talk you out of wood heat . I hate buying oil from the Arabs. I removed my oil furnace in 1993 and did not replace it until 97 . Now i have NG hot air heat but never use it . The heats been off for years . I just don't like running the wood heat to duck work or heating hot water for baseboard I think its very inefficient . Your furnace would be smoldering on warm days . I have 2 friends that heat with wood boilers and they burn 12 cord a year or more . My house is over 5000 sf not including the garages. ( We have areas in the house we don't heat )I heat the place with a hearthstone Equinox 4.0 CB foot fire box . I use 3 or 4 cord a year, i never really stacked it up in cords. I think you will burn twice the wood with a hot air stove . I sit 5 feet from my stove its no big deal to throw a few splits in twice a day. I like to feel the heat , see the fire. I guess you could be the ginny pig and try out your new system. It not a huge investment you can allways try somthing elce if your not happy. John
lexybird
Minister of Fire
I own a 28-3500 englander ,try a search on here on them and if you have any questions shoot me a pm
Hi everyone just thought I'd say hello only just found this site. You'll hear more from me over the coming months. As I like to say, keep the Home Fires Burning!
Slopar, we're almost all heating with wood. The suggestions are not meant to discourage you, but maybe just to slow down a bit. There are several options, some will work better for than others. For certain, no shoe fits all. Take your time and plan well, then go for it.
Howdy Whichburner, welcome. How about starting a new thread and tell us about yourself.
Howdy Whichburner, welcome. How about starting a new thread and tell us about yourself.
Hi BeGreen,
Thanks for the welcome. You asked me to write something about myself. I run a wholesale & retail business in the UK, We have a relatively large range and are sole importers to the UK of the Prity (Bulgaria) brand& share another brand (BlackSmith ROI)with an outfit in scotland. I'm always open to new ideas and found this site by chance. Always enjoyed the US when I've been over so thought, why not sign up and see what I can learn from my "colonial cousins". You've got a very lively forum, hope I can keep up. You know what us old world Europeans are like ! Don't know if I'm allowed to put my websites urls on here so if not forgive me.
http://www.whichwoodburningstoves.co.uk & http://www.whichburner.co.uk. I have another one but thats aimed at the Manchester region, so is probably a bit staid for you guys.
Anyway very interested in hearing from more experienced hands on top tips and pit falls.
Thank you
Thanks for the welcome. You asked me to write something about myself. I run a wholesale & retail business in the UK, We have a relatively large range and are sole importers to the UK of the Prity (Bulgaria) brand& share another brand (BlackSmith ROI)with an outfit in scotland. I'm always open to new ideas and found this site by chance. Always enjoyed the US when I've been over so thought, why not sign up and see what I can learn from my "colonial cousins". You've got a very lively forum, hope I can keep up. You know what us old world Europeans are like ! Don't know if I'm allowed to put my websites urls on here so if not forgive me.
http://www.whichwoodburningstoves.co.uk & http://www.whichburner.co.uk. I have another one but thats aimed at the Manchester region, so is probably a bit staid for you guys.
Anyway very interested in hearing from more experienced hands on top tips and pit falls.
Thank you
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