Waste gasifier?

[begreen]

Anyone have experience or knowledge of this process? It says it can be zero-emission. Does it create ash or slag? They are pretty big on promoting the pros, what are the cons?

(broken link removed)

 

[ABMax24]

Not sure, I'd like to know more as well, they are supposed to build a similar plant here, it will turn organic waste into diesel fuel including using old railroad ties.

Plant that would produce fuel out of garbage may come to Grande Prairie

A pair of companies are hoping to build a plant that produces fuel from feedstock derived from garbage in Gran...

everythinggp.com

Cielo Waste Solutions – Fueling Renewable Change

www.cielows.com

 

[blades]

they always talk these way up get the grants build the plant and within a few years it all goes down the drain because it can't, for one reason or another, be operated at a profit level. That dosen't fly with muncipal or private sectors . With the newer tech available the best one can hope for is break even- considering the waste disposal problems now cropping up. Can't run Biodiesel on the new generation of diesels EPA controls can't adapt, and MFG have said flat out running biodiesel will void any warranty. I looked at biodiesel for my self awhile back when fuel prices were sky high- currently it is a losing endeavor again based on current fuel costs. Combination desiel/ lpg or cng properly done will payback but it's a bit of a long shot-

 

[ABMax24]

they always talk these way up get the grants build the plant and within a few years it all goes down the drain because it can't, for one reason or another, be operated at a profit level. That dosen't fly with muncipal or private sectors . With the newer tech available the best one can hope for is break even- considering the waste disposal problems now cropping up. Can't run Biodiesel on the new generation of diesels EPA controls can't adapt, and MFG have said flat out running biodiesel will void any warranty. I looked at biodiesel for my self awhile back when fuel prices were sky high- currently it is a losing endeavor again based on current fuel costs. Combination desiel/ lpg or cng properly done will payback but it's a bit of a long shot-

Last time I checked most diesels are B20 certified. B20 burns cleaner than fossil fuel based diesel. The problems comes in with the fuel system itself, biodiesel has the risk of growing bacteria in the fuel tanks and gels up easier than conventional diesel.

But the amount of biodiesel that would be needed just to make B20 available at every station is huge, there is a lot of room for growth in production before that becomes a reality.

 

[woodnomore]

There is a slag or mass left over after the process of breaking down. This is usually put in a lined mono fuel cell. Like a regular MSW landfill cell there is a leachate collection system. The leachate from ash mono fills is extremely corrosive and concentrated.

 

[begreen]

There is a slag or mass left over after the process of breaking down. This is usually put in a lined mono fuel cell. Like a regular MSW landfill cell there is a leachate collection system. The leachate from ash mono fills is extremely corrosive and concentrated.

Is this for Fast-Ox incineration? Can you supply some documentation or links to follow up on?

Have you also been following this work at Rice?
(broken link removed to https://news.rice.edu/2020/01/27/rice-lab-turns-trash-into-valuable-graphene-in-a-flash/)

 

[woodnomore]

Is this for Fast-Ox incineration? Can you supply some documentation or links to follow up on?

Have you also been following this work at Rice?
(broken link removed to https://news.rice.edu/2020/01/27/rice-lab-turns-trash-into-valuable-graphene-in-a-flash/)

Interesting can they handle 100 + tons a day? They also chose to ignore the fact that methane is not freely released from landfills, methane is collected and either cleaned for energy production or flared off. Either energy or odor control.

 

[begreen]

What process was the comment about slag and ash mono fills about? Can you provide some more info?

 

[woodnomore]

Well since I am on a discussion forum and not writing a college term paper complete with references and basing my reply on my work experience I would suggest you google ash mono fills and waste to energy. To be honest if I were so inclined I could find a number of internet sources to back up what I said and just post those, or encourage you to research the topic if you would like to get more sources.

 

[begreen]

Nevermind, I was hoping that you would be helpful by simply supplying some information that would be more focussed, not a snarky response. This thread is not about traditional waste to energy plants. I have a fair amount of info on them. If you don't know anything about the Fast-Ox process, then just say so.

 

[peakbagger]

I have seen numerous fast and slow pyrolysis systems that are the next best thing for 30 years. Fischer Tropsch is pre WW2 technology that was a key part of the German war machine. It and most other pyrolysis systems need dry feedstock as a big cloud of steam vapor dos not contribute to the process. That means some sort of predrying stage and the potential for fugitive emissions that need to be dealt with. The waste ash tends to want to fuse dependent on the waste composition and the ash fusion temperature. The gas stream from the pyrolyzer is mostly CO. There usually is minimal amount of hydrogen, not enough to drive the FT process. The FT process uses catalysts and they can be poisoned so they dont work well with dirty gas streams. Generally there are issues with coking of the waste gas stream. If there are any chlorine containing compounds, the process does not burn at a high enough temp so there are furans and dioxins produced that need to be adsorbed somewhere.

As a waste reduction technology its very complex operation that could be replaced with a waste boiler and steam turbien to produce power. As a operation to recover valuable feed stocks its very inefficient. Far better spending the capital on energy efficiency.

 

[woodnomore]

Yeah that whole emission thing.

 

[begreen]

The claim of the Fast-Ox system appears to be that it is a closed vessel system with emissions captive, no?
(broken link removed)

 

[EatenByLimestone]

SUNY cobleskill has been working on small gasifiers intended for military use.

(broken link removed)

 

[begreen]

SUNY cobleskill has been working on small gasifiers intended for military use.

(broken link removed)

Thanks for the heads up. Looks like it has recently been licensed for commercialization.
(broken link removed)

 

[SpaceBus]

Thanks for the heads up. Looks like it has recently been licensed for commercialization.
(broken link removed)

Wow, I want one of those rotary gassifiers!

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Originally it was supposed to fit into 2 shipping containers so it can be moved to a remote base easily.


I guess currently they dig a trench and bury the trash. They're hoping they can now power the base with the trash so they don't have to bring in the fuel for generators.

 

[SpaceBus]

Originally it was supposed to fit into 2 shipping containers so it can be moved to a remote base easily.


I guess currently they dig a trench and bury the trash. They're hoping they can now power the base with the trash so they don't have to bring in the fuel for generators.

I highly doubt, based on experience, the garbage will be high enough energy content to totally replace fuel unless there is other added biomass. I liked the two tons of biomass to 60kw conversion rate, that's pretty decent.

 

[woodnomore]

Where do the heavy metals go?

 

[begreen]

Where do the heavy metals go?

Usually, there isn't a high level of heavy metals in most biomass unless there is industrial content, but if there is a build-up in the ash, can they be precipitated out like is done in advanced incineration systems like those used in Tokyo or Copenhagen?

 

[begreen]

I highly doubt, based on experience, the garbage will be high enough energy content to totally replace fuel unless there is other added biomass. I liked the two tons of biomass to 60kw conversion rate, that's pretty decent.

If there are plastics in the garbage it has a lot more energy content.

 

[woodnomore]

Usually, there isn't a high level of heavy metals in most biomass unless there is industrial content, but if there is a build-up in the ash, can they be precipitated out like is done in advanced incineration systems like those used in Tokyo or Copenhagen?

The heavy metals in leachate from MSW landfills comes from somewhere, and it would be present in MSW biomass.

 

[peakbagger]

Most of the folks who throw trash away really could give a darn about dumping hazardous waste in the trash. Break a CFL, dump it in the trash along with the mercury, throw away a watch battery or a ni cad battery, throw it in the trash, replace an ionizing smoke detector throw it in the trash. Go some lead to get rid of throw it in the trash. Its gotta come out the process somewhere.

 

[begreen]

Yes, I am thinking rural solid waste vs municipal, but you are rural.

Peak and woodnomore, what do you think is the best option for municipalities where landfill space is running out?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Make trash disposal fees incredibly expensive. You'll see packaging change immediately. Cutting the large cardboard box with blow up plastic bags will make recycling less bulky too.