Watching the Flame

[Monica in France]

A "Hello" to all you experienced people out there.
I'm the new guy on the block with a recently installed second-hand Ecoteck Monica .
I've known it from new but judging from the Firmware level it was sitting around waiting to be sold for a long time. But even if it is a bit more rudimentary - its algorithms seem to be the same as later versions.

Having installed it I realised that the settings were not ideal and started playing with 'tuning' parameters for the fuel rate and ventilator speed .
In my ignorance I thought they were for optimising the situation rather than for assuring satisfactory operating conditions.
Not having any serious documentation I wandered on to many forums looking for advice.
One of them was so helpful that I managed a 'Factory reset' in a moment of temporary insanity.
This changed the language to Italian and stopped the stove from working.

Fortunately I found your forum and with the help of <pelleting in NJ> got the beast back where it was before. Or perhaps even a bit better.

BUT to the subject.
Here and there in the Ecoteck manuals you will find three pictures of flames which could be named : 'bad' , 'better' and 'good'.
I've only seen the manual in black and white but I've seen the "bad' and 'better' in colour in my stove.
But never the 'good' which I only ever see half way up the hearth - never to the top.
If I didn't think it unlikely , I would say there's air coming down the pellet chute.

Now I would be quite happy with what I have , if it would stay that way for a few days.
But after two , but sometimes only one day , I come home to find the burn bowl overflowing and a “waiting list” of pellets up the chute. Obviously the flame at this point could be named 'BAD'.
Sometimes I see it coming and give the burn bowl a good poke with a screwdriver , hoping to break up what might be the problem : but this actually has NEVER stopped it happening.

So I need your help.


To answer your first four questions -
1 the Flue enters a big lined chimney ( with perhaps TOO much draught ? ).
2 OAK = YES
3 Cleaning - I have no choice at the moment - Each time it fails.
4 Pellets - I fetch them by the ton with a friend with a similar ( make but not model) stove , and he has NO problems.

I've got some other question as well - but this is the most urgent

Monica in France

 

[Bioburner]

Sounds like so many stoves of new owners, probably needs a very good cleaning. I bought a used Elena Ecoteck last February and the previous owner had not pulled the back cleanout out ports to clean. Lots of brushing and vacuuming later the stove is running without a problem.

 

[Pelleting In NJ]

Roger
I did not think to suggest a clean-out of your stove, which may be the root of your problems. I sent a PDF to your gmail, for the locations of the two clean-out hatches, inside the stove. I think the insides of your Monica are similar to the insides of the Elena. Also, the combustion fan can be easily removed to clean out ash in that portion of the exhaust ducts. To remove the fan, remove the 4 phillips (+) head screws, located around the motor. Carefully rotate the fan till the blades clear the cut-outs of the housing, then you can pull the fan out, and gently rest it on the floor (with the wires still connected).
Tony

 

[Monica in France]

A satisfactory conclusion...

You were all very nearly correct , cleaning was the problem , but not in the way you were thinking !
If I've got it right - and I'm very nearly certain now - It was a question of ash build up around the burn pot.
If you look at your burn pot you will probably find a little heap either side - ideally falling into the ash pan.
Mine was building up too fast and falling into the burn pot.
This damped the fire somewhat : but meanwhile the pellets kept on coming .

The cleaning cycle did nothing to aleviate the problem.
The solution was to up the ventilation by 150 rpm .

Thanks again to 'pelleting in NJ' for his help.

 

[chken]

"This changed the language to Italian and stopped the stove from working."

Hahahaha! What? That wasn't meant to be a joke? Is there no way to update your firmware? Are you able to compare your pellet feed and air settings with your friend that has the perfectly functioning stove?

 

[Monica in France]

No - It was not a joke. But why the astonishment ?

If I kick you : you will swear in English.
If you kick me : I will say rude things in French.
The stove just reverted to its native language.

I looked up for any firmware updates - If they exist ( which I doubt ) - you need to be a dealer to get them.
It's a first generation serial interface so you would probably need the PC software to go with it , as well.

The stove is back displaying French again and I'm learning fast how to interpete the flame to know when I must clean it out.
The 'new' settings started off as a compromise between different stoves , and I refined them until it did not clog up for 5 days.

Interesting though , I changed pellets for what is locally agreed to be of better quality.
I needed to readjust the auger rate and smoke rpm's again ! They are denser so the pellet rate went down.
But they needed more air as well.

It seems to be a mistake to try and optimise the performance - I am content now if I can get it working correctly.

 

[Lake Girl]

Having French Canadian friends when younger, I probably know some of those rude things Are you bilingual or using a translator because your writing is very easily understood.

Glad you got it back to French and sorted out the feed/air mix. You're right on the firmware - need the PC software that the dealers/authorized service techs have.

Any idea of the brand or manufacturer of your pellets? Hard or soft wood pellets? Curious as to what you have available there compare to this side of the pond...

 

[chken]

No - It was not a joke. But why the astonishment ?

If I kick you : you will swear in English.
If you kick me : I will say rude things in French.
The stove just reverted to its native language.

I looked up for any firmware updates - If they exist ( which I doubt ) - you need to be a dealer to get them.
It's a first generation serial interface so you would probably need the PC software to go with it , as well.

The stove is back displaying French again and I'm learning fast how to interpete the flame to know when I must clean it out.
The 'new' settings started off as a compromise between different stoves , and I refined them until it did not clog up for 5 days.

Interesting though , I changed pellets for what is locally agreed to be of better quality.
I needed to readjust the auger rate and smoke rpm's again ! They are denser so the pellet rate went down.
But they needed more air as well.

It seems to be a mistake to try and optimise the performance - I am content now if I can get it working correctly.

Well, I was the one making a joke.

As for the settings, it does happen sometimes where a different pellet could require a different air mix, sometimes due to pellet length, sometimes to different density, as yours did. Glad it's working.

 

[Monica in France]

Lake Girl ,
I am trying hard to answer your question about the pellets seriously and having problems.
Basically I know nothing about them except they come in 15Kg plastic sacks.
Imagine that I asked the same question of you about the petrol you put in your car.
The two different sacks I have used have very little information on them.
Both are to the standard DIN 7A192 which your side of the pond must have : but under a different name ?.
This gives : Ash < 0.7%
Humidity < 10%
PCI > 4.7 Kwh/Kg
Fines < 1%
The 'better' one claims to be <DIN plus> with humidity < 8% and fines < 0.5%
The price averages just over €5 for the 15 Kg sack.
One is manufactured in France ( EO2.fr) and the other in Belgium ( naturalenergie.com ).

Local folklore says they must be made from resinous trees ( this suggests firs to my very limited knowledge ).
This is to make the pellets stick together.
A factory has been recently been built locally ( < 50 Kms ! ) to produce pellets from OAK ( as in TREE ).
They say that you need to add nasty things like glue to do this - quelle horreux !
and that gives you the sum total of all I know on the subject.
I hope it all means something to you.

chken,

Either way , the real joke was on me when I entered 'o0' hoping for better things !



A question for everybody ( anybody ? )

Has anyone had a good look at the circuit board used by Ecoteck/Ravelli.
I've got two questions : ( for now )
A : is the motor control insulated from the CPU ?
B : what is the CPU used ?

 

[Bioburner]

Wood pellets are bound together by the woods own binder,Lignin. The high heat and pressure of being pressed through the dies allows them to be naturally bonded and need no artificial binder.

 

[Lake Girl]

The best pellets that I have found for heat production are pine, spruce, fir for raw materials (same specs as your better - approx. 8300 BTU). Our temps at Christmas were in the -40C range (-50C wind chills) so we really need the heat. The hardwood pellets require more air to burn and do not produce as much heat. We also have blends of hard/softwoods. Was wondering if Canadian/US pellets were sold there as exports are increasing to Europe. Your 5 Euros = $7.62 Cdn. so more expensive. I'm paying $6 Cdn/bag when I buy a ton; $6.50 for individual bags. There are some brands that are cheaper...

As to glue, the lignin in the wood acts as a binder. Cornstarch can be added but that is more common with raw materials other than wood fibre.

Since I have limited knowledge of the electronic set-up, I'll just throw this out there - is this the function of the inco intex 45 capacitor? Think there are three or four throughout the body of the stove. Kind of scared to mess with any of that

 

[Pelleting In NJ]

Not sure of the micro, but there are optocouplers to isolate the micro from the triac motor drive.

Lakegirl : the capacitors are for the motor windings, needed for these types of motors to run, nothing to do with isolating the motor voltage from the logic control voltage.

 

[Monica in France]

Lignin : I had to look that up !
And if I understood it correctly it's much more than just the glue !

Lake Girl : Everything is more expensive this side of the pond. And the price is rising slowly and surely.

Pelleting in NJ : that is good news. It means one can use the interface hardware on the board without worry.
I'm still frustrated by the total lack of any real 'control' optimisation in my stove.


If you wanted to measure the efficiency of a pellet stove what is the best way to do it ?

It occurred to me that to measure the heat wasted is not as hard as that.
You can measure the mass of air going in - every petrol car does that now.
(And you need to do that for any intelligent control system anyway ).
Surely the mass going OUT must be more or less the same ? Just hotter. ( Is the pellet mass significant here ? )
Measuring the pellet mass for the energy potential is simple.

 

[Monica in France]

Had a re-occurrence of my basic problem :
Bad combustion : and this within a day of my twice a week clean.

This time I had the inspection plates off and the smoke motor out.
Sure enough : there is a small passage the vacuum does not suck clean : you need to insist with a long thin flexible probe.
Except for this passage the rest could have waited for the end of the season when I intend to take compressed air to it.
I'm becoming as obsessed as the rest of you.

When I chose <watching the flame> for this thread I did not realize how pertinent it was.
The flame tells you when you have problems.

 

[Lake Girl]

What small passage are you referring to?

 

[Monica in France]

I don't think the Elena is the same configuration as mine.
Recently a friend who has one ( I think its an Elena) was describing the pile of soot which had accumulated in front of the smoke fan. Didn't sound the same as mine.

But to answer the question :
My smoke fan is bolted on the bottom of one side of the hearth. Feeding from a nice cavity behind and below the combustion area. So the other side is simple : the smoke goes down the wall behind and down the wall on the side. But on the fan side the side passage is blocked by the fan so you only have the back passage.
Less than 1cm deep.
Waiting to be crudded up with soot.