Water in my Fireplace Insert! *pics added*

[serinat]

We had seven inches of rain in 48 hours this past weekend. (And we live no where near a hurricane zone!) Our new Hampton insert (see this thread for pictures) was just installed in August, and we've only burned in it once. So we're hoping that this isn't a common problem...

There is 1" of water in the firebox!
Water was also leaking from under the insert onto the hearth.
Additionally, there is rust on top of the insert, coming from the pipe, as if water leaked from there, too.

Tell me this isn't normal.

We called the dealer this morning first thing when all we knew about was a little wet firebrick and some water on the hearth. They said all their guys were out on similar calls, and they'd send someone tomorrow. We hadn't looked in the firebox since yesterday, and it didn't stop raining until the evening. Well, this evening, we thought we might start our second fire to take the chill off, and my husband finds an ashy lake in there.

So we're going to call them first thing and insist on their most experienced guy coming out as soon as possible. Additionally, we're going to insist on a replacement. I don't want a rusty insert - this is supposed to last us 10 - 15 years!

I should have known when I asked one of the installers how long he had been doing this. "Three weeks," he said. The other guy, who was younger than me (and I'm 28), had only been doing it for three years. I try not to make judgement calls based solely on age, but I should've gone with my gut with this one!

 

[begreen]

7" of rain in 48 hrs is not normal. Nor is an inch of water in a firebox. But if the rain was strongly wind driven, it may have been unavoidable. Hard to say without more information.

Is the insert connected to a full liner? If there is a problem in the liner installation, it's likely is at the top of the chimney. Can you show a picture of the chimney cap?

 

[serinat]

Can't get a picture of the chimney cap right now; it's dark here. But I can tomorrow.

I would say that there was 1-2 hours of gusty rain over the course of the weekend. The rest was just heavy rain, little wind, and fell straight down.

 

[Hogwildz]

While your up there check the following:
Make sure the storm collar is sealed good with silicone or other quality sealant.
Make sure the area where the liner comes though top plate is also sealed with a good sealant.
Make sure cap is intact.
Make sure top plate is sealed around all the sides real good, or any side that does not wrap downward around the old flue tile or masonry.
Latex caulk is not a quality sealer! Silicone or urethane are.

 

[fossil]

Whatever you do...if you haven't already done it...get that water out of the insert, pull the firebrick out and set it someplace where it can dry , and do whatever else you can think of to dry out that insert...starting with sponges and ending up with a hair dryer, or whatever. Rick

 

[gpcollen1]

I would not be too worried about replacing the insert as long as you get the water out and dry everything out.

I would be worried about the source of that water.

 

[woodsie8]

I have that same insert. I would be freaking out! I am like you, would not want to start out with a rusty insert, but maybe that is overkill. Maybe it will be fine, once it is dried out. I will be getting on the roof this weekend and going over the list that Hogwildz said to look at.
Good luck!

 

[serinat]

I would not be too worried about replacing the insert as long as you get the water out and dry everything out.

I would be worried about the source of that water.

I want to be fair and make use of a good insert, if I can. But the thing is, we don't spend $3-4k very often, and we need this insert to last us a very long time. I don't want this taking even a year or two of good life off this thing. I think the dealer needs to take care of us and give us a new insert. If he thinks the insert is fine, he can sell it used on his floor.

I am very worried about the source of water, too. The dealer guy should be here within a half hour.

We did not get all the water cleaned up. We're working on it, but will let him finish it. We took pictures of the water, too. And hubby is on the roof right now getting a pic of the chimney.

 

[serinat]

Some pics of the water damage, and the chimney cap:

 

[serinat]

should i just use a shop vac?

 

[fossil]

That insert will probably come through this just fine if you get the water out, get it cleaned up & dried out thoroughly. It's not going to rust to pieces overnight. Rick

 

[serinat]

there *is* rust on top of the insert, where we can't get to it.

 

[fossil]

should i just use a shop vac?

You could, if it's a "wet/dry" type and you remove the filter. Or, you could just use a sponge & bucket...it's not like 10 gallons of water in there...more like a gallon, maybe less. Lay down some plastic floor protection in front of the hearth, and get on with a messy but important job. Clean that firebox out completely, remove the firebrick and set aside to dry, and thoroughly dry out the inside of the insert. It oughta be just fine. Let the installer/dealer rep spend his time looking for the source of the water. Rick

 

[burntime]

I would make darn sure the brick are dry or they will crack.

 

[fossil]

there *is* rust on top of the insert, where we can't get to it.

Whatever slight surface rust could have formed there over the course of a day or two isn't going to be a problem, so long as the source of the water is found and corrected. You could probably submerge that insert in saltwater for about 10 years before corrosion caused any appreciable structural damage to the steel. Rick

 

[fossil]

Three flues in that chimney structure...one of them uncovered on top...what's up with that? Rick

 

[budman]

I do not like the way they installed the top flue cap.It should have been cut with tabs on
the corners and then folded in and caulked and then caulked to the flue.From what i see
in your pic they left a good gap on the corners.

 

[begreen]

The corner should have been cut long and then the flap folded over and pop-riveted to make a sealed dressed corner, then a little sealant on it. It looks the new pipe should have been terminated at least a foot higher to avoid cross drafting with the other flues. If the black caged cap flue is a basement fireplace, it may smell smokey on low pressure days.

Was there any water in the other fireplace?

 

[budman]

The corner should have been cut long and then the flap folded over and pop-riveted to make a sealed dressed corner, then a little sealant on it. It looks the new pipe should have been terminated at least a foot higher to avoid cross drafting with the other flues. If the black caged cap flue is a basement fireplace, it may smell smokey on low pressure days.

Was there any water in the other fireplace?

Thats what i missed pop riveted thanks BG. :lol:

 

[fossil]

If they did that sloppy a job up top, maybe they put the cap on the wrong flue. %-P Rick

 

[billb3]

Wind driven rain gets into a lot of places it normally doesn't.

That does seem like a bit much.

If those rough seams (cap) are functional rather than decorative they could use a bit of tightening up.

 

[thechimneysweep]

You wouldn't think rainwater leaking in under the top plate would end up in the stove. The superhighway to the stove's firebox would be right down the inside of the liner, which would mean the rainwater would have to get over that 6" standup collar on the top plate where the cap bolts on. Which doesn't seem likely.

But we've seen happen, due to a phenomenon known as bouncing rain.

The caption below the photo of the red car reads: "While I was taking this picture, the rain was bouncing about as high as the car windscreen`s off the road"

So: 7" of rain fell in 48 hours. These are big, heavy raindrops, falling with considerable velocity. A slight wind causes them to encounter the top plate on an angle, and raindrops bounce right into the flue like tiddly winks.

 

[thechimneysweep]

Bouncing rain is hard to catch on film, but here's a few more:

 

[thechimneysweep]

And the last one:

 

[Todd]

I was going to say the same thing as Tom, "bouncing rain". That cap looks awful short to me and I bet you will also get a reversal of smoke down that other flue. I would look at extending that cap so it's about 1' higher.