way back when

[danielj618]

I joined the forum and had questions about identifying an older wood furnace, no one had any info on it specifically but I went ahead and bought it. It works like a charm and keeps us warm and cozy. I had it vented into an existing brick and clay flue chimney. I had no problems with it but the chimney was structurally deficient..I had a very good mason build me a new chimney from the footing up. He did a beautiful job for next to nothing..I couldnt pass it up..and I also got a new roof and siding..of course I dont have a 401k anymore but I was in desperate times..I had planned on putting up fieldstone around my foundation and chimney but...but...BUT..

This new chimney produces condensation like there is no tomorrow..it is the smae flue size..8x12...it is insane. I dont know why the old one didnt do this but anyway..

I am burning very dry and good quality wood this year, better than last. The chimney is well above requirements so as not to have a downdraft problem. I have a stainless cap on it..

I CANNOT afford to install a stainless liner but have heard of a few possible solutions..I can insulate the outside of the block chimney with 2 inches of high R foam and side over it..I also have heard of a mixture of 1/2 vermiculite and 1/2 portland cement..pour it into the airspace between the clay flue and block...I would like to try the mixture first as to preserve the idea of the pretty exterior but will do the second if needed

I need to act soon as the creosote water mixture will affect the integrity of the structure

help?

 

[BrotherBart]

For the life of me I can't figure out how you are going to do that insulation and siding bit for less money than a $350 liner kit would cost you.

BTW: Good to hear that you are keeping that bunch of kids warm.

 

[danielj618]

I have 6 sheets (4 x 8) of foil wrapped 1" high R foam that were in the back shed when I bought the place, I have a bundle of furring strips, I was going to double up the insulation and fir it with tapcons to the exterior of the block. I have some extra siding left over from the house and would basically need a few corner posts. Siding is 67 bucks a square and I can buy it by the individual piece..I wont need very much if any at all...the labor is supplied by myself...the vermiculite and portland solution is 8 bucks and change for a 90lb bag of cement and the same price for a 20lb bag of vermiculite..20lbs of that is a good sized bag..I cant imagine I would need that much as the air space isnt all that big..

I didnt realize that the liner was that inexpensive and if thats the case I could do it next year..I think the kits come in 20 foot lengths and I think I could get by with one

I was really wondering if anyone was familier with that type of solution..could it possibly work or am I pissing into the wind ?

anyone familiar with the cement/vermic mixture ?

 

[danielj618]

oh and by the way I used part of my K money to buy a Husky 357XP saw this summer..used for an hour and sat in the case for a year..got a good price

this saw is unreal..love it

ok back to crappy chimney problems

 

[danielj618]

so, I guess I will ask again..is anyone "familiar" with a vermiculite/cement mixture used as insulation between chimney block and clay flue and do you think insulating the chimney and possibly the exterior of the chimney will help with the condensation problem ?

thoughts..remarks..name calling...aanything?

 

[swestall]

Ya know, I don't have any input on vermiculite, etc. But, I do have the suggestion that you might stand back from the problem and consider going with a liner anyway; even it it is a stretch it will be there a long, long time.
I also have an 8x12 clay flue that is perfect. But, the new stove needs a better draft than it will provide. I'm so upset with the VC design that I'm most likely going to get a different stove next year. (talk about a high priced mistake)
Anyway, I am going to install the liner anyway. Because, it will draft better forever and it will be provide more integrity if I ever do get a lite off of creosote and finally, it will be better no matter what stove I go with in the future.
So, I'm suggesting, install a SS (rigid if possible) liner and perhaps spend the time earning the cash instead of insulating the chimney.

 

[Todd]

so, I guess I will ask again..is anyone "familiar" with a vermiculite/cement mixture used as insulation between chimney block and clay flue and do you think insulating the chimney and possibly the exterior of the chimney will help with the condensation problem ?

thoughts..remarks..name calling...aanything?

Why is there a gap between the flue tiles and block? How big of gap? I always thought the tiles were a pretty tight fit between the blocks. Yes, I think the vermiculite/cement mixture would help with condensation and make the chimney more structurally sound.

 

[danielj618]

I am going to install the liner anyway. Because, it will draft better forever and it will be provide more integrity if I ever do get a lite off of creosote and finally, it will be better no matter what stove I go with in the future.
So, I'm suggesting, install a SS (rigid if possible) liner and perhaps spend the time earning the cash instead of insulating the chimney.

I am thinking I may do this but in the interim..pour the mixture down between the block and liner..I first heard of this when I delivered a printing job for a local outfit..PROTECH Systems Inc...they manufacture what is said to be "the Cadillac of chimney liners" We print sales materials for them and I inquired as to any solutions they might know of..they told me about a material called Thermix..

http://www.protechinfo.com/ventinox_insulation.html

This page has info on it..they told me it was basically vermiculite/portland cement

apparently it enhances a SS liner..a ridged liner does seem to make more sense as I would assume the interior to be smooth..I do have to tell you though in their waiting room they had a sample of their product ""VENTINOX"..it is AMAZING..it is about 20 some odd layers of a special type of stainless..I would assume it to be very expensive..it is quite thick and very flexible..pretty cool stuff

thanks and looking for any other suggestions as well

 

[danielj618]

so, I guess I will ask again..is anyone "familiar" with a vermiculite/cement mixture used as insulation between chimney block and clay flue and do you think insulating the chimney and possibly the exterior of the chimney will help with the condensation problem ?

thoughts..remarks..name calling...aanything?

Why is there a gap between the flue tiles and block? How big of gap? I always thought the tiles were a pretty tight fit between the blocks. Yes, I think the vermiculite/cement mixture would help with condensation and make the chimney more structurally sound.

there is an airspace (air supposedly being a decent insulator)the block is about 16x20 (exterior) or something like that and the flue is 8x12..I thought it to be odd as well but we consulted a local masonary expert and he said that it supposed to be that way..allowing for expabsion and contraction..apparently the older systems were so inefficient that so much heat went up the chimney..it was so hot that the condensation couldnt occur or it was swept away and evaporated with the draft..my new "used" furnace , while it is from the 80's is fairly effecient and the flue gasses are not that hot to do that

 

[Todd]

Another suggestion for ya. Try stuffing some KAO wool insulation in that gap at the top 1 or 2 feet of your chimney. That will keep that air space a little warmer.

 

[danielj618]

well, I insulated (wrapped the 2" of high R foam on the outside of the chimney)...at first I didnt see any big difference...truth be told, the chimney needed two or 3 days to warm up fully. I have not had a drop of condensation..amazing. Tonight is the first night it has been really cold up here so it will get a good test...but it has been functioning so well I have little doubt it will perform well

I am very happy about this

 

[BrotherBart]

The plan comes together. Congrats.