We are the Bad Guys...Again!

[Caw]

Wood burners emit more particle pollution than traffic, UK data shows | Air pollution | The Guardian

Revised government data estimates a lower proportion of pollution comes from wood stoves but they remain a ‘major contributor’

amp.theguardian.com

 

[EbS-P]

Wood burners emit more particle pollution than traffic, UK data shows | Air pollution | The Guardian

Revised government data estimates a lower proportion of pollution comes from wood stoves but they remain a ‘major contributor’

amp.theguardian.com

Yeah but we’re half as bad this time. I was always skeptical of the original data.

 

[Mt Bob]

It's the UK and the Guardian. Need i go further?

 

[SpaceBus]

It's the UK and the Guardian. Need i go further?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The Guardian is not a tabloid and is generally well regarded. The UK is one of the staunchest allies of the US.

 

[Todd]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The Guardian is not a tabloid and is generally well regarded. The UK is one of the staunchest allies of the US.

Probably because the Guardian leans pretty far left

 

[SpaceBus]

Probably because the Guardian leans pretty far left

That doesn't change the data.

 

[EbS-P]

That doesn't change the data.

Only governments get to do that 😉

 

[begreen]

There is a slant to the article by the omission of complete details. Another article pointed out that open fires account for 97.3% of wood smoke particulates. Outdoor burning is half of that. Clean burning stoves are a very small percentage.

Half of PM2.5 from domestic burning comes from outdoor sources, says stove industry

Almost half of PM2.5 emissions from domestic burning come from outdoor sources, according to research commissioned by the Stove Industry Alliance. The researchers analysed data from the Defra commissioned Kantar Survey (2020), the EEA Inventory Guidebook, industry surveys, sales…

airqualitynews.com

 

[jalmondale]

There is a slant to the article by the omission of complete details. Another article pointed out that open fires account for 97.3% of wood smoke particulates. Outdoor burning is half of that. Clean burning stoves are a very small percentage.

Half of PM2.5 from domestic burning comes from outdoor sources, says stove industry

Almost half of PM2.5 emissions from domestic burning come from outdoor sources, according to research commissioned by the Stove Industry Alliance. The researchers analysed data from the Defra commissioned Kantar Survey (2020), the EEA Inventory Guidebook, industry surveys, sales…

airqualitynews.com

There's also the burying of just how much of air pollution is from wood stoves - 17% from all wood burning, 27% from manufacturing,13% from cars (no description of the remaining 43%). So a more accurate headline might be 'Wood stoves account for 0.46% of PM 2.5 air pollution', but I guess that just doesn't have the same ring to it.

 

[peakbagger]

The Guardian's target market is far more urban than the US. England is lot smaller country and development tends to be concentrated in smaller areas with much higher density. There would probably be 5 to 10 houses on my one acre lot. Add in a few poorly performing smoke dragons and it doesnt take long before wood smoke is major issue.

 

[stoveliker]

^^This. Also, smaller lots likely means less drying time (because less space) and thus wetter wood that is burnt. At least. Have a few acres, and there is really no exucuse for not having dry wood. Live on 0.25 acre, and it starts to be understandable. (But, it can still be done.)

 

[ratsrepus]

Probably because the Guardian leans pretty far left

you got that right.

 

[Caw]

 

[Caw]

FYI - of course I'm being facetious when I day "we" are the bad guys. We're the good guys burning dry wood in EPA stoves saving fossil fuels/minimal pollution this isn't about us. But I'm not sure the general public understands that. They just say woodburning is bad and don't take into account all the points we've mentioned. It's frustrating to read.

 

[snobuilder]

Just more hypocrite polluters blaming the little guy and easy target. Eff em.

how much wood burning pollution hits the environment with your annual avg. small wild fire out west let alone the big one like a couple years ago? Eff em. No guilt from this guy.

 

[snobuilder]

FYI - of course I'm being facetious when I day "we" are the bad guys. We're the good guys burning dry wood in EPA stoves saving fossil fuels/minimal pollution this isn't about us. But I'm not sure the general public understands that. They just say woodburning is bad and don't take into account all the points we've mentioned. It's frustrating to read.

They pic on us snowmobilers as well....eff the hypocrites.

 

[bholler]

Just more hypocrite polluters blaming the little guy and easy target. Eff em.

how much wood burning pollution hits the environment with your annual avg. small wild fire out west let alone the big one like a couple years ago? Eff em. No guilt from this guy.

I really never understood the argument that our pollution doesn't matter because there are other forms of pollution.

I agree no guilt here either but that argument just doesn't make sense.

 

[snobuilder]

I really never understood the argument that our pollution doesn't matter because there are other forms of pollution.

I agree no guilt here either but that argument just doesn't make sense.

It makes perfect sense unless these fatheads that fly coast to coast spewing jet fuel as they want to control us and point to us as THE polluters can show exactly what our overall pollution numbers are compared to others. It is simply floating out headlines to shed the guilt onto the little ppl they want to control. Eff 'em.

 

[bholler]

It makes perfect sense unless these fatheads that fly coast to coast spewing jet fuel as they want to control us and point to us as THE polluters can show exactly what our overall pollution numbers are compared to others. It is simply floating out headlines to shed the guilt onto the little ppl they want to control. Eff 'em.

The point about people telling us not to pollute while they do is absolutely valid. The argument that our pollution doesn't matter because of wild fires or volcanoes etc doesn't make sense.

 

[SpaceBus]

If your wastebasket is on fire you would try to decrease the spread of flames, not add accelerants. Not addressing climate change because of natural disasters is the same thing as pouring gasoline on a wastebasket fire.

 

[snobuilder]

The point about people telling us not to pollute while they do is absolutely valid. The argument that our pollution doesn't matter because of wild fires or volcanoes etc doesn't make sense.

The power that Mt St Helens put out....a single Volcano..... 1400 miles west of here, us in WI. as well as east of us saw the lingering effects in the air and in sunsets for months. So even in a small wildfire, how many millions and millions of unseasoned cords of wood get burned?....mind boggling if you think about it, but I'd wager a bet it could be calculated.

I can agree that we need to curb everyone's pollution numbers but don't point the finger at the easy target and act like you found the problem. Honestly, I feel more guilt drinking out of plastic water bottles, storing in Baggies, shipping plastics and k-cups than my wood burning contribution to the problem.

 

[bholler]

The power that Mt St Helens put out....a single Volcano..... 1400 miles west of here, us in WI. as well as east of us saw the lingering effects in the air and in sunsets for months. So even in a small wildfire, how many millions and millions of unseasoned cords of wood get burned?....mind boggling if you think about it, but I'd wager a bet it could be calculated.

I can agree that we need to curb everyone's pollution numbers but don't point the finger at the easy target and act like you found the problem. Honestly, I feel more guilt drinking out of plastic water bottles, storing in Baggies, shipping plastics and k-cups than my wood burning contribution to the problem.

Well said

 

[stoveliker]

Of course, for environmental purposes, one should be hesitant to fly. On the other hand, planes are cleaner and less CO2 producing than going by car if the distance is 500 miles or more.

Second, regarding wastebaskets, home fires, and 911 - there ARE people who call 911, who shout "disaster", but many here won't listen. And when your home is on fire you don't exacerbate it by adding fire while the firefighters are trying to put it out (or, before they have started working).

The point is indeed that I need to say warm enough, and I can do this with oil or wood. Wood is mostly closed cycle for CO2, and if done in an efficient stove, does not produce all that much pollution.

I've recently seen a nasty, nasty oil boiler chimney... I wonder how many people are producing much more pollution with lol boilers than the data comparisons assume...

Anyway, I agree with you about zip baggies, water bottles (I mean, want to waste money like it's water? Buy water in plastic bottles...)etc.

 

[snobuilder]

Of course, for environmental purposes, one should be hesitant to fly. On the other hand, planes are cleaner and less CO2 producing than going by car if the distance is 500 miles or more.

Second, regarding wastebaskets, home fires, and 911 - there ARE people who call 911, who shout "disaster", but many here won't listen. And when your home is on fire you don't exacerbate it by adding fire while the firefighters are trying to put it out (or, before they have started working).

The point is indeed that I need to say warm enough, and I can do this with oil or wood. Wood is mostly closed cycle for CO2, and if done in an efficient stove, does not produce all that much pollution.

I've recently seen a nasty, nasty oil boiler chimney... I wonder how many people are producing much more pollution with lol boilers than the data comparisons assume...

Anyway, I agree with you about zip baggies, water bottles (I mean, want to waste money like it's water? Buy water in plastic bottles...)etc.

Not to exacerbate this boring and worthless political discussion, but I have to ask who exactly are you comparing to the firefighters?

 

[stoveliker]

Climate change/the environment - as where this example was brought up by Spacebus.

And it's not political. It's societal. Just like (the (non-) influence of) burning wood.