Wear PPE when using the chainsaw

[daveswoodhauler]

I'm a dufus, so figured I would post.
I wasn't even cutting anything today, was just trying to adjust the idle on the chainsaw as its running too rich.
Had the saw running for about 15-20 minutes on and off, and finally gave up tryng to slow the idle as the chain stiff runs at idle. (Manual said to turn the idle counter clockwise, but it did not make any difference...anyway)
Went down to put my hand on the side of the engine while it was off, and hmm...what is that sizzle sound....oh, its my index and ring finger on the muffler....damn I hate when I do that
Tough to type with one hand, now that the other is soaking in ice cubes.
Please wear your gloves and other PPE.

 

[smokinj]

Ouch!

 

[savageactor7]

My wife insists I wear gloves when working with wood and I do but back in the day we were taught no gloves around any moving machinery. Good deal using ice on that burn...that really works miracles imo.

 

[LLigetfa]

Ja, there's some serious heat on the end of that muffler. To make a fire in the bush I would make some curlies but cutting with the grain on some dead wood and then just let the hot exhaust ignite it.

I have chainsaw safety mitts with a tough kevlar backing on the left hand for protection. I've never seen a chain come back on the hand when it breaks but it was (is?) compulsory to wear them.

 

[Jack33]

Sorry to hear about your digits.

Still want to fix your saw? If slowing the idle does not stop the chain from spinning at idle, you likely have worn or broken clutch springs or the clutch drum is packed full of sawdust and oil.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Thanks for the info Jack. I had thought the same thing about the clutch....did a few searches, and came up with perhaps the clutch.
Its not a real mans saw
Its a 18" Craftsman, with I think a 40 or 42 cc engine.
Actually, its about 5 years old and really works well. Usually sharpen up the chain after every use...pretty pleased with it. I'm thinking it only gets about 2-4 hours of use per year.
If it were to be the clutch, appx how much would it cost to be repaired? (just a guesstimate)
I have a equipment repair shop down the street, and he does a good job with my snowblower. Saw was a gift to me, so I know its only appx a $160-$180 saw....dad got it for me, and I would like to keep it vs getting a new one.
(Don't cut that often...mainly just a few small trees and smalling up logs from free scores on craigslist)
Would the clutch be fairly easy for me to clean myself?

 

[Jack33]

If you are mechanically inclined it is pretty easy to take the clutch off. Remove the clutch cover, cir-clip on shaft, and washer. Take out the spark plug and turn engine over clockwise till the piston is above the ports, feed a piece of rope into the cylinder to stop the piston from traveling up. Put a socket on the clutch nut and turn clockwise (left hand thread). When lose, spin it off by hand and don't lose the bearing in the center. Inspect the clutch shoes, springs, and holes where the springs hook on to.

But, I now see that you have a Craftsmen saw....does this saw have the chain adjuster built into the bar? If so, does it still work properly and keep the chain tight? This is a failure prone design. If your saw has that setup, that is likely the problem, especially given the limited use that you described.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Thanks Jack.
Yes, its does have the chain tightener design. But, you are also right...the chain tightener doesn't work.
The chain runs pretty slow when at idle, so its not that bad...if I put a little pressure on it...meaning, well just dab the chain into the ground, it stops.
I really don't have the $$$ right now to get another saw, a real saw, so if I have to live with the chain moving a bit at idle, so be it.
I really appreciate your posts and offering your advice.
Thanks Much!

 

[Gooserider]

Chains moving at idle are DANGEROUS, and also contribute to a lot of wear and tear on the clutch...

The bar may be fixable by replacing the bar, look at the Oregon "Intenz" setups. How are you currently adjusting the chain? (Or are you? An excessively loose chain can also have this sort of problem....)

Gooserider

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Thanks Goose. The chain is actually pretty tight. I usually adjust it when I am going to be using it, but it doesn't need to be adjusted all the time. When I say that the chain runs at idle...it runs really slow....don't know of the actual rev's per minute, but if you touch a a small twig on it, it will stop....sometimes it just stops on it own. (I realize that it is dangerous, but didn't want the folks here to think it was ripping around at 1000 rpm at idle)
I really think it might just need a good cleaning...it moves, but very slow.
THanks for your thoughts.

 

[Gooserider]

It's very much a tradeoff... A chain that is moving slowly and stops with little effort isn't as dangerous as one moving faster and / or more powerfully, but IS putting more wear and tear on the clutch parts - essentially the engine is running, and spinning the clutch shoe assembly - the springs should be holding the clutch shoes totally disengaged from the drum and sprocket, so the chain isn't turning at all. If you are getting fast persistent chain movement then either the idle is to high, or the clutch is broken so that it's engaging w/ little or no slippage. If you are getting slow movement that can be stopped, then the shoes or something is only lightly touching and giving some drive, but with a lot of slippage. Just like in a car, excessive clutch slipping causes a lot of wear and tear, leading to overheating and potential parts failures....

There is one other possible point of failure - there is a bearing between the clutch drum and the shaft that must turn freely in order to allow the engine to turn over w/o turning the drum - if that bearing is dirty or beginning to fail it can also be the source of the drag - again not a good thing. If you take the chain off, and try spinning the drum with the engine not running, it should be very smooth and you should feel almost no resistance.

I would definitely make it a priority to tear the clutch apart and figure out what's wrong.

Gooserider

 

[downeast]

It's very much a tradeoff... A chain that is moving slowly and stops with little effort isn't as dangerous as one moving faster and / or more powerfully, but IS putting more wear and tear on the clutch parts - essentially the engine is running, and spinning the clutch shoe assembly - the springs should be holding the clutch shoes totally disengaged from the drum and sprocket, so the chain isn't turning at all. If you are getting fast persistent chain movement then either the idle is to high, or the clutch is broken so that it's engaging w/ little or no slippage. If you are getting slow movement that can be stopped, then the shoes or something is only lightly touching and giving some drive, but with a lot of slippage. Just like in a car, excessive clutch slipping causes a lot of wear and tear, leading to overheating and potential parts failures....
There is one other possible point of failure - there is a bearing between the clutch drum and the shaft that must turn freely in order to allow the engine to turn over w/o turning the drum - if that bearing is dirty or beginning to fail it can also be the source of the drag - again not a good thing. If you take the chain off, and try spinning the drum with the engine not running, it should be very smooth and you should feel almost no resistance.
I would definitely make it a priority to tear the clutch apart and figure out what's wrong.
Gooserider

Once again, some good, and more unsafe poor advice .
THE CHAIN AT IDLE SHOULD NEVER MOVE. It is a dangerous situation. Slow or fast movement at idle: that chain will, not can, cut flesh. Period. It may be the clutch or a serious carburator adjustment. Yes, do the clutch, but never allow a chain to move at idle. Terrible advice. Ask your local professional arborist or logger.
Most use the chain brake intermittently when moving with the saw running. It is one of the usual professional techniques for using a saw: you trip over a root or branch with your saw at idle with the chain "moving slowly", fall on the chain, and then ? That BTW is a common self-inflicted "accident" that should not happen.
Now for the usual response. :lol:

 

[LLigetfa]

THE CHAIN AT IDLE SHOULD NEVER MOVE. It is a dangerous situation. Slow or fast movement at idle: that chain will, not can, cut flesh.

BTDT, got the scars to prove it.

Last winter, after taking delivery of my wood, I was looking all over for my chainsaw work pants only to find out the wife threw them away because they stunk and because they looked all ratty from the chain nicks (yes, mostly from a moving chain at idle). Off I go to town to buy new ones but could not find safety pants so I picked up regular work pants instead. My old saw was idling a bit rough, needing a good carb rebuild and probably a new plug so I had the idle speed a tad too high. Only wore the new pants less than an hour when I nicked the inside of my knee, shredding the cloth and just barely cutting some flesh.

Years ago on a winter slash job, I was trudging through waist deep snow with both hands on the saw when I lost my balance and fell backward. My heavy mitted right hand touched the throttle just after the chain crossed my thigh and it cut through three layers of kevlar in the blink of an eye. Fortunately, the pants had five layers.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Hi Folks - Just wanted to let you know that the chainsaw will not be used while in its current state, and I am bringing it to a repair shop for a good once over. Thanks for the replys and warnings, and I should have added in my last post that I would not be using it.

Seeing that Craftsman aren't the best saws, I might be on the hunt for a new saw if I get not so great news from the repair place.

If so, I'll be looking for some thoughts on getting a new saw to fit my needs.

Basically, I don't fell trees, most wood I get is free from craiglist, and most rounds I have to cut are 30"-35" circumference or less. Even though I dont cut them down, sometimes I can do a lot of cutting.

Anyway, thanks for the post/warnings.

Also, I just wanted to say thanks for the moderators on this site. It must be a thankless job, and they always do a good job when posting with information, and they do it without any sarcasm...just the facts. Again, love this board.

 

[Gooserider]

Glad to hear that you will be getting the saw fixed! I don't think I EVER said that having a chain move at any speed is a "safe" thing - just that some are less unsafe than others...

If you do end up looking for a new saw, you will get tons of advice from advocates of different brands, with many varieties of reasons why the recommended choice is "the best" :coolsmile: I will admit to being partial to Dolmar myself. I love my 7900, but it sounds like it may be overkill for your needs (most of the time it is for mine as well, but it's fun...) One that I gave a lot of consideration to, and I hear a great deal of good things about is the Dolmar 5100s - 51cc, pro-grade, and it seems like one of the better values of good saw for the money out there.

That said...
1. If you are doing a good bit of cutting, it is worth paying the extra for a "pro-grade" saw - they tend to be better built, easier to fix and maintain, and offer more performance per pound of weight - they do cost more, but it tends to be worth it.
2. While the brand loyalty battles will probably rage forever, saws in the same quality and size class are mostly going to offer similar performance, it's a "Ford vs. Chevy" kind of thing,
3. All modern saws tend to have performance and reliabilty limitations imposed on them by government pollution mandates - it may be worth buying now before they get worse - and most can benefit from getting their carbs set up richer (which may involve removing gov't mandated limiting caps), and often by having their mufflers openned up a bit...
4. If you have a favorite shop that you'll be getting to do your wrench work, there is much to be said for getting a brand that they are used to working on...

Gooserider

 

[downeast]

Please guys : ANY CHAIN MOVEMENT AT IDLE IS DANGEROUS. Tune the carb and idle so that the chain is stopped at idle.
A slow moving chain will cut you as well as a WOT chain where you're more ergonomically aware of the saw. Think of a slow moving chain as being almost pregnant. Please, don't ask for an explanation. :red:

Most users do not use the chain brake as it is intended--to stop any movement of the chain when you're stepping anywhere with the saw running ( best practice BTW ), to stop the saw in case of kickback ( usually operates correctly--usually ), and as a safe starting procedure ( another best practice ). Before running the saw, check that the brake is operating. I automatically flip the brake with my forearm when walking with the saw for example when limbing a downed tree. Back to limbing and stopped to cut, then pull the brake off without removing your hand/thumb from the handle. Little effort involved with even full size saws. Try it.