What are your energy costs in your area?

[rickwai]

I am in Central Ohio between Dayton and Columbus
Electric $.093-.10 kw/hr Dayton Power and Light
Propane $1.48/gallon( Doing a summer fill when the price is at the lowest) I only use a few hundred gallons/year
Corn $4.03/Bu (from farmer filling a gravity wagon) elevator price is $10 .00 per 100 lb
Pellets $180.00/ton TSC using the Neighbors club discount
Natural gas ? We are in the country and I have no idea.
Fuel oil ? I dont know anybody on fuel oil. It is not very popular here like it is out East.
All cost quoted include tax delivery fee ect. Basically the billed amount divided by the quantity. My electric cost per kw/hr went down this spring for some reason? And I am not on any of the 2nd hand electric providers. Been down that road before. Had to get PUCO involved because they were trying to screw me!

 

[rickwai]

Fuel Cost Calculator - Compare Energy Costs for Fireplace, Stove & Insert Fuel Types | Wood Heat

This calculator will help determine how much it will cost to heat your home using a variety of different fuels for your stove, fireplace or insert.

www.woodheat.com

This is a pretty easy calculator to use. Does not include corn though. I just use the pellet box and figure out how many bu. are in a ton. Btu's are close I think?

 

[minux]

In Bmore -

Lowest kWh is 6.39¢...

Delivered pellets run $220 / ton

NG $0.499 per therm

Not sure about the rest

 

[rickwai]

In Bmore -

Lowest kWh is 6.39¢...

Delivered pellets run $220 / ton

NG $0.499 per therm

Not sure about the rest

Man , Electric rate is pretty low! I thought $.093 was pretty good Does that include taxes ect? Like if you used 1000 kw/hr in a month your boll would be about $64.00?

 

[ben153]

In the Finger Lakes Region of UNY

kWh is 3.943¢...

Corn - From the farmer - 8.33¢ per lb / $156 per Tn

Store pellets (PA Premiums) run $220 / ton

NG $0.69446 per therm

 

[minux]

In Baltimore-area, taxes are included in the rates of electric or gas. Some of the lower-cost-alternative-suppliers will charge a monthly service fee of $9.99.

Baltimore is "de-regulated," emphasis on the quotes. Some people do play the game of signing up for alternative supplier X for a year or two, then switching to another supplier, kind of like long distance plans of the 90s.

 

[SidecarFlip]

As an aside, I'm always very leery about corn from ANY farmer (including me) because the RM can be all over the place. Consequently, I'd NEVER buy gravity wagon corn. When I had to buy my corn, bought it from the coop because I knew 2 important things. One, it was at last dried to 15%RM (which it has to be to be tanked for storage or it will mold in the tank) and 2, it was magnetically screened for foreign metal objects. Metal parts have a habit of falling off combines like pieces of rasp bars and fasteners that come loose inside, all of which can be issues with an auger operated stove and then there is the 'earwing' issue so the corn still has to be cleaned prior to burning as the earwings clog up the works.

The lower the RM the hotter it burns, the less you consume for a given amount of realized btu output from any corn capable appliance and the corn I burn is not only complete clean and screened, the average RM is less than 10% so it's hot burning and very clean.

Typically, the pellets I mix in have more dust junk than the corn itself.

Once corn is above 15%RM (field corn via a local farmer's gravity wagon it does a couple bad things in a stove. One. it don't burn as hot and makes more soot and two, it produces creosote as it burns, because it burns 'colder' that really dry corn.

Been doing this a long time and I've 'experiment' with different varieties and moisture levels. Best corn to roast is medium dent midwestern field corn in my opinion (from sampling various strains. No matter if it's GMO or non GMO, your stove don't care at all.

The 2 drawbacks to roasting corn are, One, the clinker issue in the bottom of a burnpot and the amount of ash corn burning makes.

Only way I know of the get around the clinker issue is run pellets with the corn. I run pellets (any brand, hardwood, softwood, cheap or premium don't matter) with the corn. I've found that a 2-1 ratio, 2parts corn to one part pellets works well and no clinkers form in the burn pot. The other way is using the pot as a clinker pot and employing a 'clinker hanger' in the pot which is basically a wire bent to lay in the bottom of the pot. The clinker farms around the clinker and you can remove the wire and clinker without shutting down the stove and toss it in the garbage and put in a new 'clinker hanger.

The ash issue (corn makes a large amount of ash when it burns, requires more frequent cleaning of any corn capable stove, probably 2 times as much attention as a pellet only stove.

Finally, just because a stove is listed as a 'Biomass' unit, don't mean it's corn capable. There are a limited number of true 'biomass units sold today; or at least true multifuel units that can burn any biomass material that has been pelletized. Most stoves are only wood pellet capable because of the built in firing parameters in the control board. A true biomass capable unit will have user adjustable firing parameters in the control board that are easily accessible to the end user.

Just my 2 cents for today, mostly from 30 years of experience and some blunders too....

 

[rickwai]

As an aside, I'm always very leery about corn from ANY farmer (including me) because the RM can be all over the place. Consequently, I'd NEVER buy gravity wagon corn. When I had to buy my corn, bought it from the coop because I knew 2 important things. One, it was at last dried to 15%RM (which it has to be to be tanked for storage or it will mold in the tank) and 2, it was magnetically screened for foreign metal objects. Metal parts have a habit of falling off combines like pieces of rasp bars and fasteners that come loose inside, all of which can be issues with an auger operated stove and then there is the 'earwing' issue so the corn still has to be cleaned prior to burning as the earwings clog up the works.

The lower the RM the hotter it burns, the less you consume for a given amount of realized btu output from any corn capable appliance and the corn I burn is not only complete clean and screened, the average RM is less than 10% so it's hot burning and very clean.

Typically, the pellets I mix in have more dust junk than the corn itself.

Once corn is above 15%RM (field corn via a local farmer's gravity wagon it does a couple bad things in a stove. One. it don't burn as hot and makes more soot and two, it produces creosote as it burns, because it burns 'colder' that really dry corn.

Been doing this a long time and I've 'experiment' with different varieties and moisture levels. Best corn to roast is medium dent midwestern field corn in my opinion (from sampling various strains. No matter if it's GMO or non GMO, your stove don't care at all.

The 2 drawbacks to roasting corn are, One, the clinker issue in the bottom of a burnpot and the amount of ash corn burning makes.

Only way I know of the get around the clinker issue is run pellets with the corn. I run pellets (any brand, hardwood, softwood, cheap or premium don't matter) with the corn. I've found that a 2-1 ratio, 2parts corn to one part pellets works well and no clinkers form in the burn pot. The other way is using the pot as a clinker pot and employing a 'clinker hanger' in the pot which is basically a wire bent to lay in the bottom of the pot. The clinker farms around the clinker and you can remove the wire and clinker without shutting down the stove and toss it in the garbage and put in a new 'clinker hanger.

The ash issue (corn makes a large amount of ash when it burns, requires more frequent cleaning of any corn capable stove, probably 2 times as much attention as a pellet only stove.

Finally, just because a stove is listed as a 'Biomass' unit, don't mean it's corn capable. There are a limited number of true 'biomass units sold today; or at least true multifuel units that can burn any biomass material that has been pelletized. Most stoves are only wood pellet capable because of the built in firing parameters in the control board. A true biomass capable unit will have user adjustable firing parameters in the control board that are easily accessible to the end user.

Just my 2 cents for today, mostly from 30 years of experience and some blunders too....

Maybe the stove you are burning it more finicky than a St Croix. It is no more cleaning than a pellet stove. Shut it down and sweep out every 2 weeks, brush the glass, empty ashpan and drop the clinker on the fly. I have been burning 100% corn from the farmer out of his bin at 15% or less moisture for 11 yrs. (I have never had a reason to test it). I run it thru a simple screen prior to bagging. 1/2" hardware cloth tray then fall across 1/4" screen on it way into the bag. It does a pretty good job. We keep the wagon tarped under a lean to. Several years ago the corn was coming out of the field at 14% so I filled the wagon right out of the combine. Whatever is left in the spring we finish in the fall. Sets in the wagon all summer and burns fine. (except this year we got bug in it for the 1st time in 11yrs.) As far as moisture, You are either going to input propane to dry it down to 10% or burn it at less that 15% . It cant be a cost saving to dry it down that far for the added output. But if you have no cost in the corn it works out great for you.
If I had to jump thru all those hoops of extra dry corn, mixing with pellets, vaccing out mountains of ash ,making clinker hangers , shuttting it down daily or every other day to clean it I would just burn pellets. The reason I burn 100% corn is it is cheap, local, low maintenance and warm. The reason I run a St Criox is it will burn whatever I throw at it. It was originally designed as a corn burner as opposed to a pellet stove that they converted to a Multifuel.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I don't pay squat for mine either and it's very clean so it don't need screened. Obviously, your and mine operate differently but the bottom line is it keeps the shack toasty.. The reason I mix in pellets is, pellets eliminate the clinker 100%. I still use propane. The farm shop is floor heated and I keep it at 65 in the winter. Tractors and me like it warm. Takes about a full bottle every winter but it's a farm expense and deductible. I do get a lot of ash from the corn it's always that way. Mine is all in the barn, no gravity wagon. It's in Supersacks and bagged on skids.

Burn on I say.....

 

[Dataman]

Residential customers pay a service availability charge of $35.50 per month plus 5.42 cents per kilowatt hour. https://www.popud.org Electricity rates will be going up about 10% for residential customers as a result of a budget and rate increase passed by the Pend Oreille Public Utility District , Plus another 10% in July. Our Biggest Customer went out of Business (paper mill).

Pellets this season cost me $220 per ton with $80 for Delivery. Last month averaged .8 bag per day. Switch to Heat Pump above 30f.

Last Months Bill was $224 and I expect about the same for this next bill. Biggest bill was Feb 2020, $317. It was pretty darn cold If I remember. We have two 5k Electric Heaters. One in Garage and One in 200sq ft shop Wife uses to keep plants alive. Plus 2 of them in 600 Sq Ft Building

 

[SidecarFlip]

I do find it interesting with wood pellets, that a lot of customers have their delivered and pay a delivery cost, I pick mine up myself. I can haul 20K at a time and they are skidded and wrapped so whatever I do buy keep a long time in the barn. This fall I bought 5 pallets at $200 a pallet which will last me about 3 years, maybe longer if the winters stay non winters here. Snow removal equipment still has not left the barn either. Still sleeping from last spring.

I strongly suspect energy cost (of all kinds) will increase substantially this next year. Especially motor fuel and heating oil. Under the incoming regime, we will go from a net exporter to a net importer.

 

[Dataman]

I do find it interesting with wood pellets, that a lot of customers have their delivered and pay a delivery cost, I pick mine up myself. I can haul 20K at a time and they are skidded and wrapped so whatever I do buy keep a long time in the barn. This fall I bought 5 pallets at $200 a pallet which will last me about 3 years, maybe longer if the winters stay non winters here. Snow removal equipment still has not left the barn either. Still sleeping from last spring.

That is a Lot of Work to do. I would have to just carry each bag by bag. You must have Skidloader or such.

 

[SidecarFlip]

That is a Lot of Work to do. I would have to just carry each bag by bag. You must have Skidloader or such.

2 large front wheel drive farm tractors with loaders and a skid steer too.... I'm a dirt farmer.

 

[rickwai]

I don't pay squat for mine either and it's very clean so it don't need screened. Obviously, your and mine operate differently but the bottom line is it keeps the shack toasty.. The reason I mix in pellets is, pellets eliminate the clinker 100%. I still use propane. The farm shop is floor heated and I keep it at 65 in the winter. Tractors and me like it warm. Takes about a full bottle every winter but it's a farm expense and deductible. I do get a lot of ash from the corn it's always that way. Mine is all in the barn, no gravity wagon. It's in Supersacks and bagged on skids.

Burn on I say.....

Bottom line is to stay warm

 

[SidecarFlip]

Residential customers pay a service availability charge of $35.50 per month plus 5.42 cents per kilowatt hour. https://www.popud.org Electricity rates will be going up about 10% for residential customers as a result of a budget and rate increase passed by the Pend Oreille Public Utility District , Plus another 10% in July. Our Biggest Customer went out of Business (paper mill).

Pellets this season cost me $220 per ton with $80 for Delivery. Last month averaged .8 bag per day. Switch to Heat Pump above 30f.

Last Months Bill was $224 and I expect about the same for this next bill. Biggest bill was Feb 2020, $317. It was pretty darn cold If I remember. We have two 5k Electric Heaters. One in Garage and One in 200sq ft shop Wife uses to keep plants alive. Plus 2 of them in 600 Sq Ft Building

View attachment 270827 View attachment 270828 View attachment 270829 View attachment 270830

Popular thing woodworking.... Not into wood at all. I'm into metal. If I was into wood, I'd have a chunk wood stove and burn all the scrap. Cannot do that, metal don't burn, well it does but not for heat.....

Wood is getting super expensive today, kind of like metal did 2 years ago. Prices increase but never decrease.

Nice shack btw.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Natural gas ? We are in the country and I have no idea.
Fuel oil ? I dont know anybody on fuel oil. It is not very popular here like it is out East.

Natural gas is damn near free until UGI gets ahold of it. One of my bills was $75 but the cost of the gas was $14 So essentially a $61 delivery charge for sending it through their rusty pipes for $14 worth of gas.
Oil is a good deal these days ,I paid $1.40 gallon recently.
Coal is about $160 a ton or $200 delivered.
ELectric is 11 to 12C KWH all in. Not bad for no Hydro in the area.

 

[ManitobaSky]

Hydro $.07 per kw, oil $2.40 a gallon, pellets $225 per ton.
All prices have been converted to US dollars.

 

[minux]

I do find it interesting with wood pellets, that a lot of customers have their delivered and pay a delivery cost, I pick mine up myself. I can haul 20K at a time and they are skidded and wrapped so whatever I do buy keep a long time in the barn. This fall I bought 5 pallets at $200 a pallet which will last me about 3 years, maybe longer if the winters stay non winters here. Snow removal equipment still has not left the barn either. Still sleeping from last spring.

I strongly suspect energy cost (of all kinds) will increase substantially this next year. Especially motor fuel and heating oil. Under the incoming regime, we will go from a net exporter to a net importer.

Sunk costs, my friend.

Assuming no pick-up truck on hand. I could get a tow package installed on my MGM, but then I would need to rent or buy a trailer. Trailers are right around $1K, plus $300 for the tow kit for $1.3K total. In 17 years a trailer would pay for itself. Do not see much of an incentive, because I will most likely get a new DD before then, so just wait until then. My MGM is perfect cosmetic and mechanical shape and sits under a car cover, so I am happy with never towing with it.

If I ever did buy a pick-up, I would most likely pick pellets up a pallet at a time and get them on demand.

 

[minux]

Natural gas is damn near free until UGI gets ahold of it. One of my bills was $75 but the cost of the gas was $14 So essentially a $61 delivery charge for sending it through their rusty pipes for $14 worth of gas.
Oil is a good deal these days ,I paid $1.40 gallon recently.
Coal is about $160 a ton or $200 delivered.
ELectric is 11 to 12C KWH all in. Not bad for no Hydro in the area.

For a heating oil user, is it cheaper for you to burn in a furnance heating oil or natural gas? Price per barrel dropped this year. Buddy timed his re-fill right this year, paying 1/4 what he did last.

 

[rickwai]

For a heating oil user, is it cheaper for you to burn in a furnance heating oil or natural gas? Price per barrel dropped this year. Buddy timed his re-fill right this year, paying 1/4 what he did last.

Oil use to be super expensive, but now seems like it is pretty reasonable. No many use it around here

 

[rickwai]

Hydro $.07 per kw, oil $2.40 a gallon, pellets $225 per ton.
All prices have been converted to US dollars.

I never gave electric cost a thought on weather it was close to a hydro plant or not. Very interesting

 

[minux]

Oil use to be super expensive, but now seems like it is pretty reasonable. No many use it around here

Oil was big in Baltimore in the 70s/80s, but most converted to all-electric now, removing oil entirely when furnances went EOL. Only our old neighborhoods (e.g., 1960s and before) and new-high-end neighborhoods (e.g., 2019+) have NG lines on property.

 

[rickwai]

Natural gas is damn near free until UGI gets ahold of it. One of my bills was $75 but the cost of the gas was $14 So essentially a $61 delivery charge for sending it through their rusty pipes for $14 worth of gas.
Oil is a good deal these days ,I paid $1.40 gallon recently.
Coal is about $160 a ton or $200 delivered.
ELectric is 11 to 12C KWH all in. Not bad for no Hydro in the area.

Coal is high here. To far from where the good stuff comes from. Not many use oil here like over your way. Not much demand so cost is higher. Propane is what is used if Nat. is not available

 

[minux]

Coal is high here. To far from where the good stuff comes from. Not many use oil here like over your way. Not much demand so cost is higher. Propane is what is used if Nat. is not available

Propane was never big in Baltimore. Only places you see it are DE and PA...

 

[SidecarFlip]

The issue with propane is, it comes off the cat cracker from crude oil and when the cost of crude climbs (and it will very shortly and actually it is right now, the cost of propane will increase, I suspect substantially. I just checked the price on off road diesel this morning. It's at $1.99 a USG delivered. Jumped 20 cents from the 15th of the month. On road is $2.50, up from $2,20 a US gallon. It's just starting to climb and will continue to climb as long as our wonderful (not) politicians keep playing the 'green new deal' malarkey

America runs on oil, or stops running when the cost of admission gets out of hand.