What is the benefit of burning 24/7

[Potatohead]

This will be my first year operating my insert. Once I feel I am high enough on the learning curve I am planning on burning as close to 24/7 as I can with my little Regency I1200 . There is about a 6-7 hour gap during the day when no one is home, 4 days a week someone is home 24/7.

Primarily, I want to keep my oil furnace from kicking on. Once I am comfortable with burning my goal will be set the thermostat down to 50-ish and maintain a comfortable temperature in my house.

Additionally I like the idea of coming home to a warm house and keeping the house and chimney warm so I am not constantly re-heating the living space, etc... I am sick of paying tons of money to enjoy a "balmy" 66 degrees when at home.

I had a friend over this weekend and he was saying that it is a total waste to heat 24/7 with a wood stove and that it is only a waste of wood since no one is home. He didn't believe me when I told him lots of people with wood stoves keep them burning 24/7 and claimed this is dangerous.

My primary questions are: What are the benefits of burning 24/7? Is it more efficient to burn 24/7 or to only burn while you are at home - taken from the perspective that you want to minimize overall heating costs?

We got on this conversation because he saw my ash disposal cans and thought what I was doing was overkill and a waste of money. I have four sheet metal cans - 2 -30 gallon, 2 - 6 gallon. The 6 gallon have locking lids. I put a cement block on the bottom of each 30 gallon and have the 6 gallon cans inside of the 30 gallon cans (which also have lids) on top of the cement block. Both 30 gallon cans are on cement patio blocks. This whole thing cost me $90 and gives me a great deal of piece of mind.

My plan is to fill one 6 gallon about 3/4 with ash, then move on to the second one. By the time the second is near full, I will feel safe that the first can has cooled sufficiently for disposal - at least a few weeks should have passed by then.

He said his parents have had a stove for 25 years and they just throw the ash in the garden and stomp on them in the snow and have never had a problem. But they don't burn 24/7. I have read extensively on the subject of wood stoves/burning since I decided to have one installed last spring (woodburner's companion, most of the articles on this site, and lots of forum info, woodheat.org, several chimney sweep sites, etc...) and it seems that is a very dangerous ash disposal method. Is the snow really enough to put the ash out? Either way I will not be doing this.

Sorry for the long post - I should have stuck to just my question... :red:

 

[Adios Pantalones]

On burning 24/7- I have wimpy dogs that my wife already has pajamas for. I would keep the house warm just for them because I am a sucker and they have me trained.
Second- letting the house cool down when not there is more efficient, but if the oil kicks on, then you're paying again. I burn 24/7 because I like to have the house warm when I get home, as does my DW.

On ash- I empty into a metal pail when it's just a few coals- even burning 24/7, it gets pretty low if I'm at work all day. I put it outside for a day or 2, then save for pottery glazes, or spread on the lawn/garden/compost pile. Do you really think the coals will stay hot for more than a couple of days- never mind WEEKS? It just won't happen.

 

[FatttFire]

Totaly agree................. warm house all the time, and no gas bill!

 

[the_dude]

When heating with oil/lp/electricity, conventional wisdom is to allow the house to be slightly cooler when away from home because it saves on energy. For example, you may have the temp at 68, then allow it to go down to 60 when not home. I have never been terribly convinced that this is overly effective, but again, it is the popular belief.

I would think that there is point of diminishing returns to this theory though. At some point, if you allow your house to get too cold when no one is home, it is going to take more fuel to bring it back to a comfortable temp that it likely would have taken to maintain a more comfortable temp. This is of course, just my theory.

Let's take a more practical approach to this. The reason you are burning wood is to use less oil/lp. I don't think it would be practical to let your home drop down to a cold temp when not at home in hopes your I1200 will quickly get to temp and heat your living space to a comfortable temp. You don't want to spend the first several hours at home in a cold house. Trying to maintain heat in the home with your burner when as much as possible makes perfect sense.

I think you friend may have wood envy. His logic is also twisted. He should be encouraging you to burn as much as possible, because it should decrease demand on liquid fuels, and hopefully decrease his heating costs. I wouldn't pay much attention to his comments.

By the way, as long as your insert was properly installed and you maintain safe temps in it, as well as maintain clean pipe, burning 24/7 shouldn't be any more dangerous than burning 1 hour a day.

 

[begreen]

24/7 burning usually means less fluctuation in temperature and you only have to light the stove once . This will be hard to do this in a small stove, so don't be discouraged if it doesn't happen. Just have lots of kindling and start new fires. We did this for years.

 

[Risser09]

I see no reason why a 24/7 burn would not be a wood burner's goal. Ideally, you want to start one fire and keep that fire going for months. Why would you want to restart a fire over and over again in the dead of winter? With a continuous fire, you pop a few logs onto your coal bed and shut the door. Saying that burning 24/7 is a waste is a ridiculous statement. Introduce him to someone who heats their house ONLY with wood.

Also, companies pride themselves on how their stoves achieve such long burn times for a reason. They manufacture stoves/inserts/furnaces to withstand 24/7 burns. As long as you don't overfire the insert/stove, you'll be fine.

You probably are going overkill on the cans, as I doubt you'll fill them as quick as you think. Two would be sufficient enough to have one outside cooling, with another inside to collect the ashes. Also, you want to leave a little ash as a bottom layer of your firebox which helps insulate the fire a bit.

 

[BurningIsLove]

I burn 24/7 for two reasons.....the first (duh) reason is that I work from home so I'm home to enjoy the heat, so that's a no brainer. But if I'm leaving the house for a biz meeting (6+ hours), I do load up the firebox and damper down before I leave so the house is toasty warm when I return (and that I dont have to build a new fire, I can be quite lazy sometimes).

But the other reason is set up/warm up time. I have a thick masonry chimney & a downdraft stove, which means that draft & a thick coal bed is crucial to efficient operations. Even though the chimney is internal, from a cold start it takes about 2 hours w/ the bypass open (wasteful) for everything to heat up sufficiently and build up a coal bed to where I can close the bypass and have a clean, long lasting burn. So in the grand scheme of things, I'm still probably burning more fuel the way I'm doing it which your sources may consider wasteful, but the long 24x7 burns are clean emissions and heat a large area that I dont have to heat back up from cold.

 

[BurningIsLove]

Oh, and as far as your ash system goes, any small bits of hot coals are extinguished within a few hours at most. I use the (cooled) ash in several areas for pH balancing, such as the garden, tossed over the lawn, or over perennial spots that need some alkalinity.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Dude- The amount of heat lost from the house is driven by the difference in temperature between the house and the outside. Therefore- if the house is kept warmer, it will necessarily be losing more heat to the outside than if you let it cool off. It will take a lot of heat to warm it up if you let it cool, but not as much as it would take to keep it warm.

 

[polaris]

72 gals. of ash cans???? I burn 2 stoves pretty close to 24/7 and I doubt I make that much ash in a season. In reguards to heat loss I think Adios has it about right.

 

[BurningIsLove]

Yeah, I empty my ash pan a few times a months and it's about 1 gallon each time.

 

[Potatohead]

Wow, thanks for all the responses!

I guess my ash disposal is overkill... I read and heard from a few reliable sources that improper ash disposal causes more fires than wood stoves themselves. So I kind of tweaked on this and went way overkill :lol: .

Nonetheless I can still use the pails I bought for something else. I am not looking to put ash directly in the 30 gallon cans - only the 6 gallon ones. The point of the 30 gallon is just to store the 6 gallon in the outdoors to prevent wind from potentially knocking the little can over.

I know my little stove probably won't be capable of sustaining a burn on the days when no one is home for a while, but I guess my point was I will be setting up a fire before I leave for the day even though only the dogs will be enjoying it. I figure about 2 - 3 hours top without a fire should still maintain a reasonable house temp and prevent the furnace from turning on, on most days.

I did the break in procedure on a few 40 degree nights a few weeks ago and loved it. This is the first time I am not dreading the colder temps.

 

[myzamboni]

I don't burn 24/7 because my 'dead of winter' equals the shoulder season for a lot of you.

 

[Jags]

Dude- The amount of heat lost from the house is driven by the difference in temperature between the house and the outside. Therefore- if the house is kept warmer, it will necessarily be losing more heat to the outside than if you let it cool off. It will take a lot of heat to warm it up if you let it cool, but not as much as it would take to keep it warm.

And you can take that to the bank.

 

[BurningIsLove]

Ah, that's not a bad idea having a "hot" and "cold" container for convenience. But you'll still likely never fill up the large, 30 gallon cold one in a season.

The "fires" that the statics often quote is where people are mixing normal garbage (junk mail, newspapers, etc.) with their (hot) ash, which is most certainly a fire hazard.

Either way, welcome to a furnace-free or furnace-reduced season. And yes, assuming you have reasonable insulation/windows, and a thick stove material like cast iron, even if the fire is 3 hours out, you should be returning to a warm(er) house than you are accustomed to. Enjoy!

 

[Ken45]

I would suggest setting your stove up for a long burn, long enough that it will still be putting out heat when you come home and allow an easy rekindling. Set your oil furnace thermostat at 66 or 68 or 70. Yes, it might kick on a bit, but it won't burn all that much because the wood stove is providing the majority of the heat. Also remember, this is going to be in the daytime when outside temps are higher than at night. You will come home to a comfortable house and you will have enough coals left in the stove and enough chimney draft to get a fresh load of wood started quickly.

Think about it, if your wood stove keeps the house temperature up to 65 or so, the oil furnace only runs like it would on a day that was 65 outside....not much at all.

As for the ash situaiton, you didn't say what the patio stones were sitting on, dirt, concrete, gravel, or wood? Your approach sounds like extreme overkill to me. Especially if you leave a few inches of cold ash in the bottom of the 30 gallon cans, you won't get any significant heat transfer through the bottom of the cans. I don't see the need for the double cans or the block in the bottom. Remember, you really just want to remove ashes, not hot coals. Leave the coals in the stove!

Actually the can I use has holes rusted in the bottom and I keep the ashes from falling through by putting newspaper on the bottom. The newspaper has been there for years and hasn't burned yet! (Disclaimer: my 30 gallon ash can is sitting on a concrete slab).

And you should be able to dump ashes in the garden at any point unless it's crowded with DRY dead vegetation. We don't get dry ground during heating season.

Ken

 

[Highbeam]

You bought peace of mind with your ash cans. No harm was done to anyone and they will work great.

The biggest reason I burn 24/7, in a much milder climate than yours, is that I don't want to come home to a cold house and have to suffer for the 3 hours it takes to heat it all up to proper temps. I am only home and awake for several hours per day so why should that time be spent in the cold? Due to my smaller stove I need to restart a fire more often than some folks but the stove stays warm long after the fire goes out so I am not starting a cold stove.

Your friend is uninformed.

 

[the_dude]

Dude- The amount of heat lost from the house is driven by the difference in temperature between the house and the outside. Therefore- if the house is kept warmer, it will necessarily be losing more heat to the outside than if you let it cool off. It will take a lot of heat to warm it up if you let it cool, but not as much as it would take to keep it warm.

Thanks AP. From a practical standpoint, I still wouldn't set my thermostat at 50 as the original poster mentioned. I want to save on LP, but I want to live comfortably as well. Coming home to 50 degrees and waiting for the burner to bring up the temp is not a practical solution for me. I don't mind my wife's company much, and I would like her to stick around, I guess.

 

[firefighterjake]

Wow, thanks for all the responses!

I guess my ash disposal is overkill... I read and heard from a few reliable sources that improper ash disposal causes more fires than wood stoves themselves. So I kind of tweaked on this and went way overkill :lol: .
. . ..

Nothing wrong with a little bit of over-kill . . . whether it be cutting, splitting and stacking enough wood to last until the year 2011, creating the ultimate woodfire starter or disposing of your ashes in massive ash containers.

However, while I think you are partially correct in that many, many fires are started from the improper ash disposal (the remaining fires I would hazard a guess often come down to improper installation (i.e. not following manufacturer clearance recommendations, improper floor protection, improper wall/ceiling pass through devices) and lack of maintenance (i.e. not cleaning out the chimney) and just plain stupidity (i.e. attempting to ignite a fire with gasoline, setting a freshly fueled chainsaw three inches away from the woodstove, etc.).

That said, most of the "incidents" that I've seen from fires started by improper ash disposal once again can be traced to folks not being very smart . . . they took the ashes thinking they were all cool and placed them in a cardboard box, plastic bag, plastic bucket, etc. . . . and then opted to place the container in their garage, on their home's attached wooden porch or simply dropped them in a heap on a pile of dead grass.

From the sounds of it, I wouldn't expect any issues from hot ashes with your proposed ash disposal system . . .

And for the record, while I'm planning on taking things slow at first this winter by starting out with evening fires and weekend fires I suspect that in a short time I too will be doing the 24/7 thing as the confidence level and burning skills improve.

 

[Ken45]

That said, most of the “incidents” that I’ve seen from fires started by improper ash disposal once again can be traced to folks not being very smart . . . they took the ashes thinking they were all cool and placed them in a cardboard box, plastic bag, plastic bucket, etc. . . . and then opted to place the container in their garage, on their home’s attached wooden porch or simply dropped them in a heap on a pile of dead grass.

Exactly, along with placing fresh ashes in the dumpster

Ken
ex volunteer firefighter

 

[DiscoInferno]

I can attest that coals buried in ash in a hod outside on a concrete porch can stay "live" for several days, possibly a week. I'm constantly amazed at the insulating properties of ash.

 

[bokehman]

The real reason people burn 24/7 is that you can't program a woodstove to light itself 2 hours before you arrive home.

 

[Vic99]

I don't think anyone mentioned the top reason for burning 24/7 . . . visible wood fires are just so cool. I love having a fire ALL the time. Even when I'm not home, not only is the house warm when I return, but start up is a snap.

It's also great just knowing that a fire is burning in my home.

 

[Highbeam]

The real reason people burn 24/7 is that you can't program a woodstove to light itself 2 hours before you arrive home.

Good point. If I could program the woodstove to "pause" while I am at work and then reheat the home before I arrive then I'd do it.

 

[sapratt]

Here is a question coming from the other side. What are the cons of burning 24/7? Other than using wood.
Will it wear your stove out faster or are they made for 24/7 burns? I'm not sure if we will be burning 24/7.
At first that was my plan but I'm not sure if the wife will tend the fire while I'm gone. 2 I don't know if
I have enough wood to last all winter doing a 24/4 burn.