What was your interconnection fee??

[Jeepman401]

Been getting serious about putting up a 3000 or 4000watt system to start...then found out about my utlities fee...This is in Willmar, MN. Anyone else from MN that has had to pay this fee please let me know. Also are you charged any "net-metering" fees?
This just seems way out of line from what I've heard so far...

 

[Valhalla]

WOW...

 

[Jeepman401]

Thats what I thought...no private resident in town has a PV system that is grid-tied. I
think I know why now.

 

[jebatty]

I'm going to guess you are looking at the wrong application form. What I see for this form is something that may apply to generation over 40kw, or possibly to commercial generation. I seriously doubt that it applies to residential PV and net metering under MN law.

 

[peakbagger]

That does look like a commercial application but unless forced by state regulations, many small utilities do not want small PV and use regulations like this to prevent PV.

I assume you have reviewed this (broken link removed to http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=MN10R&re=0&ee=0)

It looks to me like there may be relief from your state legislature but I expect small utilities may conveniently be "forgetting" about their new obligations.

 

[Where2]

Write to your utility and ask for the "Residential PV Interconnect Agreement Paperwork". Where I live, anything under 10kW has a different set of playing rules. Over 10kW, I need to provide an insurance rider with the local power company as the beneficiary in the event that my gear damages their grid, and some ridiculous fee like that.

 

[Jeepman401]

Write to your utility and ask for the "Residential PV Interconnect Agreement Paperwork". Where I live, anything under 10kW has a different set of playing rules. Over 10kW, I need to provide an insurance rider with the local power company as the beneficiary in the event that my gear damages their grid, and some ridiculous fee like that.

I am going to be working with Paul at MinnSolar LLC.
This is in the copy of the paper work that was handed to me by the electical engineer at the utlities that I was talking with about solar and getting grid tied with them. So I assumed this was the correct application. The engineer here tried talking me out of persuing Solar.(at least thats how I took it) I should cut back my use or not get grid connected because the application was expensive he said. Maybe I did get the wrong application, I hope so.
Again I would be the only resident in town that would have solar grid tied, from what the engineer told me. I wonder how much of a learning curve that is going to be for them and me should I go all the way with it.

 

[jebatty]

If you find the $5000 fee is correct, two suggestions, follow one or both: 1) contact your state senator and representative who represent your district and Governor Dayton. Plead your case. MN law is quite favorable to residential solar, and a local utility taking the fee route to block residential solar may get a cool reception. 2) go viral on this, find others who are interested in solar, hit the social media sites and let public rule on this. The point is that you are trying to conserve, something your utility supports through its various rebate programs, and your utility is blocking you (and others) from achieving conservation.

 

[mr.fixit]

Seems like they are really discouraging solar,one way or another. One other way they do is with higher fixed monthly service fees.
If your monthly service fee hasn't gone up,it will. Ours is up to $28 a month,so for me that's $56 a month just for the service fee. My shop is metered separate for tax purposes.

So here,unless you cut the cord and go completely off-grid,a person can never eliminate their electric bill.

 

[BrotherBart]

Why would you want to grid tie a system that can't even power a water heater?

 

[begreen]

Because a water heater is quite intermittent in operation. The sun is more or less continuous. It's the total accumulation that matters. We usually get very sunny summers that make up in terms of watts produced for our grey winter. It helps of course to be in a state with a pro-active grid metering program and not one that is ALEC and Koch controlled.

And then again some people heat hot water with gas or their boiler.

 

[BrotherBart]

Just talking about the fact that you would not be doing much, if any, co-gen with that small a system. Just satisfying the requirements of the residence.

 

[begreen]

Our background house load in an almost total electric house is about 300W. This is mostly phantom loads. The hot water spikes are short. Right now the heat pump is a longer load. But you are correct, at this time of the year on a cloudy day all we are doing is reducing our electrical bill a bit. In spring I'll have some good graphs of this once we get out of the long rainy spell we're in. During peak producing months with the heat pump off we are typically outproducing the household load.

Still, we only had 2900W installed for the past few years. Net gain still paid us $0.10 per KW generated off the bill every month and $0.54/KW generated once a year. That amounted to an annual check for about $1550. We just added another 2700W. With tax credits and incentives the payback will be less than 6 yrs. Return is about 6%/yr. That beat bonds and most dividends.

One can only put in as much solar as they have room for or that they can budget for. Even if it doesn't carry the house load 100% with net metering it should reduce the bill noticeably. How much varies a lot from state to state.

 

[Jeepman401]

Just talking about the fact that you would not be doing much, if any, co-gen with that small a system. Just satisfying the requirements of the residence.

That would be the point of the system to start with, satisfying my residence.
Not everyone owns a huge house, nor do they have huge electric bills. I have been heating with wood for the last 15 years and this year just got a new Blaze King stove and it has made wood heating much easier than before. So with that said I have no heat bill(also have a 15+ year supply of wood), there is no gas line on my property, no meter, no bill. I have used the old wood stove to heat my water for 5 years using a old solar water heater I bought for $100. That has paid for its self long ago. I could see a drop of at least $10 off my electric bill when winter came by that alone.

So having zero heat bills accomplished I am moving to the electric problem, solar seems an obvious choice. The town killed any meaningful wind power with a 25ft hight limit I would have by code here.
I also have a tankless LP water heater for summer use. Again, no meter, no bill there also. Is it possible to go off grid in town? Maybe...but that dang sewer bill has got me stuck. lol

 

[Where2]

Is it possible to go off grid in town? Maybe...but that dang sewer bill has got me stuck. lol

It is possible, in the right town. If you bought a place in the wrong town the most cost effective fix is probably to move. Converting back from sewer to an onsite waste water disposal system is probably not allowed by town regulations. My wife and I bought a place 3/4 of a mile from the center of a town, with only an electric connection. No gas, no sewer, no city water. When we're not there, the electric bill including the first 100kWh runs $10.34 per month. Once I assemble my PV system on the roof, it'll still only cost me $10.34 per month, even when we are there... PV Watts says a 4.6kW system at our new property (45.8°N) will generate 4.3MWh/yr. My 4.4kW system at 26.8°N generated 6MWh the first year, that more than covered the cost of running A/C in South Florida.

 

[Jeepman401]

Our background house load in an almost total electric house is about 300W. This is mostly phantom loads. The hot water spikes are short. Right now the heat pump is a longer load. But you are correct, at this time of the year on a cloudy day all we are doing is reducing our electrical bill a bit. In spring I'll have some good graphs of this once we get out of the long rainy spell we're in. During peak producing months with the heat pump off we are typically outproducing the household load.

Still, we only had 2900W installed for the past few years. Net gain still paid us $0.10 per KW generated off the bill every month and $0.54/KW generated once a year. That amounted to an annual check for about $1550. We just added another 2700W. With tax credits and incentives the payback will be less than 6 yrs. Return is about 6%/yr. That beat bonds and most dividends.

One can only put in as much solar as they have room for or that they can budget for. Even if it doesn't carry the house load 100% with net metering it should reduce the bill noticeably. How much varies a lot from state to state.

It is possible, in the right town. If you bought a place in the wrong town the most cost effective fix is probably to move. Converting back from sewer to an onsite waste water disposal system is probably not allowed by town regulations. My wife and I bought a place 3/4 of a mile from the center of a town, with only an electric connection. No gas, no sewer, no city water. When we're not there, the electric bill including the first 100kWh runs $10.34 per month. Once I assemble my PV system on the roof, it'll still only cost me $10.34 per month, even when we are there... PV Watts says a 4.6kW system at our new property (45.8°N) will generate 4.3MWh/yr. My 4.4kW system at 26.8°N generated 6MWh the first year, that more than covered the cost of running A/C in South Florida.

Yep once in town you are stuck paying to take a #2, but I grew up in the country and having your own sewer and/or well can get very expensive overnight.
It's kind of funny, the engineer suggested a way around the fee and not grid tie and instead run what I want off solar. I thought for a moment...nah then told him I would rather just not have a bill. I know that they will charge a meter fee, but how much? I have room on the roof for 6kw, so its not like I'm in this to try to take money from the utility. I would be comfortable starting a smaller system to start, at the same time I would be installing power to the garage(new building) and upgrading the fuse panel in the house, so its now or never for the credit anyway.
The utlities is doing a rate hike this June and plan one for the next 3 years, so I will wait alittle while and see what they are doing as far as meter and customer charge and all the other they tack on. Seems there is a trend in MN to raise the all these fees much faster than the rate itself for the power.

 

[georgepds]

Why would you want to grid tie a system that can't even power a water heater?

1) Because you can avoid a big battery, and ,
2) if you have net mettering, you can bank the energy you produce in the summer for winter use

 

[BrotherBart]

1) Because you can avoid a big battery, and ,
2) if you have net mettering, you can bank the energy you produce in the summer for winter use

Yeah I just read a piece I hadn't seen before. Just the savings on not having to invest in and maintain batteries is huge.

 

[begreen]

With our common power failures when I first started looking at installing solar I really wanted to have battery backup. Then I started reading about their maintenance, failure rate, short lifespan and cost. Cured me pretty quickly.

 

[BrotherBart]

I have the battery bank but no solar.

 

[begreen]

As more retired battery systems from electric cars become available the possibility of unplugging becomes more attractive. Lithium ion battery packs are lower maintenance.

 

[mr.fixit]

Looks like Tesla is getting in to home scale storage.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ttery-for-emerging-home-energy-storage-market

 

[Jeepman401]

Looks like Tesla is getting in to home scale storage.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ttery-for-emerging-home-energy-storage-market

So it sounds like this guy is going to hound the utility here in town. Said he's left messages and no one has returned calls. The longer this take the bigger I can afford I am thinking...and with this tesla battery coming out in a few months it sounds it will be interesting. So a 10KWH battery is suppose to cost $1000 then?
How much will the cost be with all their controls, monitoring etc or will it be just a DC battery a guy could hook up a house inverter to? Can you get 220v to power a welder at times?

 

[DBoon]

So a 10KWH battery is suppose to cost $1000 then?

You will be waiting a long time for a 10kWh battery to cost $1k.

 

[begreen]

It may not be that far away at all. Prices are coming down quickly. Tested used 4kW Prius packs are going for about $850 on eBay. New Volt battery 16KW packs can be bought from GM for $2306 or $144.12/KWh, retail. I think the numbers will get even better soon when Tesla's mega battery factory comes online. Musk intends to supply the home grid with these battery packs at a much lower price. So maybe in a few years getting a 10KW pack for $500 will be feasible.
(broken link removed)
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...old-chevy-volt-battery-into-a-whole-house-ups